Just wondering, how many states have a on field physical fitness test. That is perhaps a mile, 1/2 mile run and possibly some wind sprints. I officiate in NC and we are just in the early stages of installing such test. Next year it will be mandatory for all Varsity officials to take.

No requirement like that here in WA. We have a hard enough recruiting and retaining new officials - not sure why we would want to introduce a disincentive like that.

Z

Never heard of one.
 

I do not know why for basketball anyone would want to take an "on-field" physical test. ;)

I have never heard of anyone giving such a test. But if we are making officials take a rules test, which the questions might have little to do with officiating, then why not give a test where it requires some physical activity? At least running is something that they will actually do during a game.

Peace

I don't know if it will be helpful to you, but we just had a long discussion of the FIBA test:

http://www.officialforum.com/thread/10081

We don't have any such test in MA that I know of.

Samdog,
Welcome to the forum.

Sounds like: <LI>there is a surplus of officials in your state; <LI>your state is culling the diseased and lame (<I>Natural selection</I>);<LI> a new director of officials was hired; <LI>state insurance will be covering officials; <LI> your state is going back to two-man games.
:rolleyes:

mick

Samdog, as officials we should have a passion for the game. If you have that passion then there is nothing wrong with preparing for the game. If you take care of rules knowledge, dress and appearance, and physical fitness before you step on to the floor you will be more prepared to referee. That is what we should all strive for, to Referee.
I just thought of that. I'm going to try to officiate less and Referee more. Anyone on the rise or on top should know what that means.

I don't get it.
mick

Most people looking to hire/move people up will tell you that they are looking for Referees. U1s and U2s are everywhere. Referees are what they are looking for.

me neither

Z

tomegun,
I have had partners begging, or making a deal, about who is gonna ref, and who is not. I say, "Fine."
mick

YU.P. Don't mean that you're not gonna take care of business if you have to-just because you're a U.

I think that he might be trying to point out that the colleges are looking for "take charge" officials. Been that way for a long time,actually.You usually don't make it if you aren't.In top-flight games,all 3 officials on the floor will have that attribute.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Sep 30th, 2003 at 03:45 PM]

Yeah, what he said. ;)

Okeedokee. I'll maybe try that.

The coach walked over where I stood,
But, I knew that rule <u>and</u> was lookin' good.

<hr>
A "take charge" official may have been defensive
Because he didn't have the ball.

The coach walked over where I stood,
But, I knew that rule <u>and</u> was lookin' good.
He didn't say anything,though,because he knew I could
T his a$$ up,and he knew that I would!


A "take charge" official may have been defensive
Because he didn't have the ball.
[/B][/QUOTE]Groan-for the last one.

Jurrasic spelled out what I meant. I don't care who throws the ball up. I'm talking about officials who will take charge. Manage, Communicate and have the courage to call certain plays and leave certain plays alone.

Let's see who is aerobically fit with distance running tests so that we can go out on the floor and run short bursts in polyester pants for about an hour.

Make sense.

Not.

Rich

While they don't track precisely, ability in one will, in most cases, be reflected the other. There are some officials that simply can't make it down the court. If they can't make it down the court, they sure will not make it a 1/4 mile.

Quote:

While they don't track precisely, ability in one will, in most cases, be reflected the other. There are some officials that simply can't make it down the court. If they can't make it down the court, they sure will not make it a 1/4 mile.

If it's an area that does 3-person and you need coverage for afternoon games, maybe a better test would be to make sure someone has a pulse. :-)

Z

Well that might work with some of the teams you see, but if you work some of the teams I see, you better have more than a pulse and some energy to run up and down the court. ;)

Peace

Yeah !!!
 

Rut,
'Specially on them BIG floors, yo? ;)
mick

Your part of the country doesn't have a monopoly on athleticism Rut.
My point is that there are lower level games that require coverage and from what I understand, most associations can barely cover those games as it is. Given the choice between getting them covered with some "slower bodies" and not covering them all, I say let's just stick with the pulse check. :-) If there are areas with a surplus of excellent referees with the athletic ability of Carl Lewis who are willing to do lower level afternoon games, then maybe those areas should implement that fitness test.

Z

What happens if a ref fails the test? You make a good point zebraman, but I think there should be some standard of fitness for the top V games. I would not recommend blocking a ref who failed the test from all games, but it can give an assignor ammunition for explaining why someone who has always been getting the top games is not anymore. It would be alot easier to say sorry you failed the test that saying sorry you got old and fat.


Of course only in areas that have enough refs that are qualified to handle the top games regardless of physical fitness. An experienced slow ref would be better than a fit bad ref.

NO S..........!!!!!
 

No $h!t Sherlock!! ;)


No $h!t Sherlock!! ;)

You do not have to have the athletic ability to be able to run with players. But you do have to have a sense of humor if you took my post as serious. :D

Peace

Zebraman, wow you are making some serious excuses for being out of shape. Is there a reason for this?

The reason is that you missed his point completely. You need to go back and re-read his post.Z isn't making any excuses at all for officials being out of shape.He's simply telling you that,on afternoon games,availability can be the <b>only</b> factor on who is assigned to games-fit or not.As an assigner,I can tell you that that is certainly true.You take what you can get sometimes.If the mirror fogs up,they're on the game:D.

I think that you also missed the ":-)" in his post.

Jurassic, how do you deal with out of shape refs? Not just a little out of shape-but slow enough you have seen it affect their ability? I am not referring to lower level games but higher level ones.

The reason is that you missed his point completely. You need to go back and re-read his post.Z isn't making any excuses at all for officials being out of shape.He's simply telling you that,on afternoon games,availability can be the <b>only</b> factor on who is assigned to games-fit or not.As an assigner,I can tell you that that is certainly true.You take what you can get sometimes.If the mirror fogs up,they're on the game:D.

I think that you also missed the ":-)" in his post. [/B][/QUOTE]

And with all due respect JR, I also think Z missed the point that everyone else is making. For one, we realize that if a game needs to be filled, especially a lower level game you put pretty much anyone on the game you can. But if other tests are to be used a barometer for ability, why not a test of physical ability? Especially when I see fat, older and lazy officials on games working over younger, in-shape, hard working officials. If we are going to use written tests as qualifiers of officiating ability, why not physical ones? Now no one is saying you have to have officials that have a 6 pack on your stomach and the marathon ability of an Olympic Champion, but if we want to test other things which have little to do with officiating, then why not something that we actually have to do, RUN?

Peace

It sounds as if the NC eagles don't want to fly with turkeys anymore. Let's just get the tape measure out. Why waste time running? Anyone with a waist over 32" must line up at the east corner of the gym for summary flogging at dawn followed by a 6 mile run and 10 by 400 wind sprints. Repeat weekly until all the poor varsity wannabes either pass or pass away.

SIUC 4-0 (We sure can beat up those D2 teams)

If they can't do the job,then I simply won't use them on higher level games.If an official can't get into position to make the proper call,then there's a good chance that they won't make the proper call.That's not fair to their partners,let alone the players and teams out there,who are the most important ones anyway.I also tell them to their face why they aren't being assigned to key games,play off games,etc. We have an appeal process set up for when I make these decisions,but I can't remember it ever being used.The guys seem to know in their own minds that there's nothing personal involved,and that someone had to make that decision,and it is the right decision. The toughest part is telling good,long term officials,who are also your friends,that you don't think that they are physically able to do the highest level games anymore.I think that it helps that they know that I applied the same criteria to myself, and that I won't do varsity games anymore(unless it's a last minute,panic need-an-official type of thing). I'm a firm believer that you have to earn your way into the good games,and keep earning your way every year.I'm also a firm believer that you gotta push your good young,fit,keen officials. If you don't,you stand the chance of losing them.Or take the risk that they're gonna start to just mail in their games,instead of going all-out.The older officials also know that they had better be prepared to do things properly too,without cutting corners.That means being reasonably fit and trim,using the proper mechanics,knowing the rules and how to apply them,etc.,etc.Those are the basics,before you get into evaluating the other things that they need like game awareness,judgement,"presence",etc.

Btw,I'm not talking about officials getting beat down the floor on a fast break.That happens to the fastest officials at times,even in 3-man NCAA games.I'm talking about the Leads that root themselves on the end line,no matter where the ball is swung to.Also the Trails that won't move with the ball,across or up and down.I lump the lazy officials in with the guys that have really slowed down. Neither deserve to be on the best games.

Jmo,but someone has to do it.

Yowzah... we're all a little fired up this week aren't we?

As far as my personal shape... I lift weights and do cardio 5-days a week year-round and am one of the most fit refs around. A physical fitness test would be to my benefit.

However, as former president of our assoc, I am also quite aware of the difficulty of retaining officials. I have found that the written test we all take is not threatening nor a "barrier" to retaining officials. It's open book and only requires a couple hours of studying to pass even for beginning officials.

However, a fitness test would be intimidating enough for some existing refs to hang up their black shoes or potential recruits to shy away. That would be a very bad thing for the game in these parts.

Our ratings system takes "the ability to keep up" into account and those who are out of shape fall way down in the ratings. Therefore they are given mainly lower-level games so it works out for everyone.

Z

Aaaaargh! ...Memories.
 

tharbert,
The last time I ran 6 miles and 10 - 440 yd. pacers, I actually did have a 32" waist. (<I>Yes, 440 yards</I>)
...And it hurt then! Now, it would require my truck ... and a driver. :cool:
mick

Re: Aaaaargh! ...Memories.
 

I still have my 32" waist...hidden in there somewhere.

Jurrasic, I totally agree with your last post and the way you feel.

Me too, If the assignor will do that then a physical fitness test is not necessary.

JR,
I'll get my speed goin' and be happy to work 7th and 8th for you.
mick

No way! you can still motor.A good 3-person crew will always need that one solid,mature experienced person on it.Assigning can be a real balancing act sometimes.You want to keep your real experienced guys contributing as long as they can too,and also passing along their wisdom and experience to the young lions coming up. Then,when the old guys are ready to pass the torch,but still want to do some games,you then assign them to train the rookie officials on the 7&8th,Frosh,etc. That's what I'm doing now.

You ain't at that point yet,partner. T'would be fun,though,if we worked together. I can hear the coaches now-"Can't you two be serious?". :D

The real challenge is assigning the old geezers and geezerettes that don't have the years of experience and wisdom to hand down. What the heck do you do with them!?

The real challenge is assigning the old geezers and geezerettes that don't have the years of experience and wisdom to hand down. What the heck do you do with them!? [/B][/QUOTE]Heckuva question,Juulie.I honestly don't think that I can give you a one-size-fits-all answer.Maybe someone else might be able to help.Personally,I think that a lot depends on the individual:do they really want to improve and do the best they can,or do they just want to make a buck or get a little exercise?;will they listen during their training to officials that may be much younger than them,but are still good,experienced officials?;are they young enough that your association will be able to get some productive years out of them?;Is their level of fitness good enough that they won't embarrass your association when they're out on the court;does your area have a lack of officials-to the point that you just need bodies,no matter how raw(bad) they might be? All of these things have to be taken into consideration.

A lot depends on what your honest opinion,as an assigner,would be as to what is the best thing that you can do for your organization.Imo though,I think that you have to give the person a chance,no matter what,and then take it from there.Give 'em the games and see what they can do.If they can do the job,then there shouldn't be any reason in the world to <b>not</b> use them. If they can't do the job,you may still need them for lower-level games-but you you should tell them where they stand.

Heckuva question,Juulie.I honestly don't think that I can give you a one-size-fits-all answer.Maybe someone else might be able to help.Personally,I think that a lot depends on the individual:do they really want to improve and do the best they can,or do they just want to make a buck or get a little exercise?;will they listen during their training to officials that may be much younger than them,but are still good,experienced officials?;are they young enough that your association will be able to get some productive years out of them?;Is their level of fitness good enough that they won't embarrass your association when they're out on the court;does your area have a lack of officials-to the point that you just need bodies,no matter how raw(bad) they might be? All of these things have to be taken into consideration.

A lot depends on what your honest opinion,as an assigner,would be as to what is the best thing that you can do for your organization.Imo though,I think that you have to give the person a chance,no matter what,and then take it from there.Give 'em the games and see what they can do.If they can do the job,then there shouldn't be any reason in the world to <b>not</b> use them. If they can't do the job,you may still need them for lower-level games-but you you should tell them where they stand. [/B][/QUOTE]

Great answer, Jurassic. I was wondering about myself more as a geezerette and less as an assignor.

I was wondering about myself more as a geezerette and less as an assignor. [/B][/QUOTE]Juulie,I think that your assignor,whoever it is way out there on the Left Coast,has the same basic philosophy that I have. They gave you an honest shot,obviously saw something promising there,and now you're steadily moving up.Geezeretes like you that turn into solid officials can make assignors look good. Btw,that's a tribute to you for your hard work and dedication,not the assignor.

What will they do?
 

Heckuva question,Juulie.I honestly don't think that I can give you a one-size-fits-all answer.Maybe someone else might be able to help.Personally,I think that a lot depends on the individual:do they really want to improve and do the best they can,or do they just want to make a buck or get a little exercise?;will they listen during their training to officials that may be much younger than them,but are still good,experienced officials?;are they young enough that your association will be able to get some productive years out of them?;Is their level of fitness good enough that they won't embarrass your association when they're out on the court;does your area have a lack of officials-to the point that you just need bodies,no matter how raw(bad) they might be? All of these things have to be taken into consideration.

A lot depends on what your honest opinion,as an assigner,would be as to what is the best thing that you can do for your organization.Imo though,I think that you have to give the person a chance,no matter what,and then take it from there.Give 'em the games and see what they can do.If they can do the job,then there shouldn't be any reason in the world to <b>not</b> use them. If they can't do the job,you may still need them for lower-level games-but you you should tell them where they stand. [/B][/QUOTE]


JR, I'm in a beginner's clinic and we have about 40 people attending. I'm waiting for the discussion regarding appearance. Many are challenged when it comes to fitness and I'm waiting to see if we are told anything about it.
We are required to wear our uniforms at the next session and that will be a perfect time to discuss appearance.

I know its tough when you have a shortage of refs, however when the association's reputation is as stake, do they still accept bad looking refs?

Re: What will they do?
 

Woodee,
Just do what <u>you</u> can, the best that <u>you</u> can.
Head up. Thoughts to yourself. Smile on your face. ;)
mick

Re: Re: What will they do?
 

Mick,

I apologize, I'm not one of the challenged, however there are a several who are.

We will begin with middle school games. What are tips to advance?

Re: Re: Re: What will they do?
 

Woodee,
I am sure you are not challenged by your physicality, but I am willing to bet you are seeing lesser, older, slower, fatter, sloppier officials get better schedules than others.
Bite the bullet. Bite your tongue. Say nothing you do not want repeated.
Ask you assignor what you need to do.

I do not assign. If I did, I would assign by: <LI>knowledge, <LI>judgement, <LI>mechanics, <LI>presence, <LI>dependability, <LI>personality, <LI>appearance.

mick