NCAA: Coach Requesting a Timeout Under 1 Minute?
 

Can a coach request a timeout during a live ball with under 1 minute left to play in the game? I cannot find any mention of this in the NCAA rule or casebook.

Situation: :22.5 left in second half. V in possession of the ball. T, who is standing next to V bench blows whistle and raises open palm to indicate a timeout has been granted to V as requested by V coach. At virtually the same time, L blows whistle and raises fist to indicate a foul on H. The officials confer and rule that timeout request came first. V coach argues that a timeout cannot be called from bench during a live ball. Officials confer, agree with V coach and decide to report the foul, which will lead to free throws for V. H coach starts arguing that the bench can call a timeout under 1 minute. L & T confer with H coach and decide, that, yes, this is correct, and re-report to the table that the timeout has indeed been granted, the foul is rescinded, and that there will be a throw in after the time out.

You can see what happened here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hawlzWa1NE#t=2h12m12s

Wow.

Didn't watch the video, but coach cannot call a live ball timeout at any point in the game. However, if the officials determine the whistle for the timeout came before the foul, this should be treated as an inadvertent whistle. You can't pretend that it didn't happen and decide to enforce the foul.

Wow, indeed. That was an absolute mess. I agree with jpcg99's assessment.

Maybe C does more HS games then college games, brain farted, and just had an IW? In any case, the crew was leaderless and no one stepped up to logically get them to resolution. If jpcg99 is on that crew, he says, "Look, coach can't call that TO, so what happened first, the IW or the foul?" Answer that question, then proceed accordingly after the obligatory explanations to the coaches. Should take no more than 45 seconds to do all of that.

I believe there may be a suspension looming.

This part of your statement is not true in NCAA-M. The rule has been modified this season.

He is right. Coaches can call a TO during an inbounds attempt. However the TO in this video was erroneously awarded. Even if you have an IW, you can then grant the TO.

And quite frankly no one is loosing a game over such a call, unless it happens multiple times or is a pattern with an official/crew.

Where's the balderdash smiley? What is there to answer, even if you have an IW you can then grant the TO, or the coach can say nah I don't want the TO and you put the ball in play (option 2 is less likely and would take a special a**hat coach to incinerate his bridge).

The NCAAW rule is different.

I'm not granting the time-out after the IW because I'm not asking the coach if he still wants the time-out. I'm going to say "Inadvertent Whistle" and IMMEDIATELY put the ball back in play.

What I want to know is, if the V coach knows he cannot be granted a timeout in this situation, why is he requesting one??

What rule or caseplay are you using to not grant the time out during a stoppage in play?

He's the a**hat I mentioned. He created an IW to "help" his team in this spot and now doesn't want the TO, which can't be forced down his throat.

The only options this crew has are

1. IW, then ignore the contact, then grant the TO if still wanted
2. IW, don't ignore the contact and call a T, then grant the TO if still wanted
3. Agree the foul came before the IW, administer the foul and then grant the TO if still wanted

Probably not as much of a deal in college, since the clock stops anyway, but do you really have that option in NCAA? In HS, you grant the TO. Primarily because the rule says to, but to me, it's the worst option to give him a chance to stop the clock and/or set up his press without having to also burn the timeout.

Johnny what is the rule for HC calling TO in NCAA-M?

I covered the live ball scenario when a coach can call a TO in NCAAM.

You cannot do what BNR suggested. The clock is legally stopped. The coach can legally call a TO. The only thing that cannot be done, I'm fairly sure of this, is call in substitutions during an IW stoppage of play.

There are two case plays from the 2016-17 NCAA Casebook that deals with IW timeout requests:

The fine line is if the official will "inquire" the Coach who requested the timeout if he still wants the timeout. Putting the ball immediately back in play by the official appears as a viable option.

Isn't the part about a dead ball "When Team A requests a
timeout during this dead ball, the timeout shall be recognized and.." incorrect?

When at the disposal for a throw-in, the ball is live. Looks like a typo.

You have misunderstood the rulings. One play involves a coach requesting a TO when they are not allowed, and the other is a player. Saying the official is permitted to inquire if they still want the TO is an acknowledgement that ONE hasn't been granted yet, it's not "an official can flat out ignore a legal TO request."

Also NOT granting a coach a TO when he can legally request one (during a stoppage of play) will guarantee a call from your assignor IF the coach contacts said assignor (which in my experience with this stuff they will).

I agree with this, but please correct me if I'm wrong;

During both case plays when the TOs are requested, is the ball live (in-play)?

The ball is at the disposal of the thrower-in and the other a player is airborne. During these plays, TOs can be requested but not legally granted. If they are granted by the official, it is an IW. At this point, the official "is permitted to inquire as to whether Team A still wants a timeout." The official can say at the spot, " My IW, the coach is not allowed to request a TO." It is up to the official if he wants to to put the ball in play or ask if the Coach A still wants a TO; at least that is what I am understanding.

They are not granted. The whistle causes the ball to be dead, when it shouldn't be. This is an inadvertent whistle. Since play is dead anyone can legally request a TO. You can't ignore a coach simply because you screwed up. Own it and move on.

In cases when it's a throw in ANYONE (from team with ball) can "call" a TO. In cases where a player is airborne falling OOB NOONE can "call" a TO.

Sorry about that, I was editing my last post when you replied back. My use of "granted" was mis-applied during the 2nd statement.

Yes, the IW caused the ball to be dead and anyone can legally request a TO at that point. But the onus is on the Coach or player to request a TO during this deadball period after the IW. The official can inquire if the Coach still wants the TO or put the ball back in play explaining it was an IW (as I understand it).

Players and coaches can call/request for a TO whenever they want; it is up to official to blow the whistle and grant the TO at the appropriate moment.

I'm going to always query the coach. A "smart" coach would say no and save the TO.

No -- it's correct.

The TO requested while the ball was at the disposal is inpored. But if A requests a TO during the deadball created by the IW, that request is honored.

And, the official can ask if A still wants the TO. If A requests a TO, whether or not the official asks, the TO should be granted.

Yes, correct, they meant the dead ball during the IW, not a dead ball when the ball was at the disposal of the throw-in team. :o

No his statement wasn't correct, it was not about the specific play in the video, it was a blanket statement that coaches cannot ever call time out while the ball is live in NCAA-M. Additionally, my response did not say anything about the play in question, it specifically disputed the statement coaches cannot call time outs at any time the ball is live.

This is off-topic to the main question of the the thread, but I just spent awhile trying to figure out how the foul (that was eventually rescinded) was NOT a TC foul against Gold for shoving White to the floor with two hands to the chest.

When I saw who they sent to the line, I had to watch it again just to see what happened to him while his teammate was dumping someone to the deck.

Tough situation all around, capped by resuming play from the wrong inbounds spot. But hey, we've all been in similar nightmares with different specifics ...

I was agreeing with you. He = Johnny d

I cannot do what in college basketball? In college basketball is an inadvertent whistle. And I'm not going to stand around ask the coach if he still wants the time out. Don't call me wrong when you don't know what you're talking about. At no point did I say it would not Grant a timeout requested while the ball was dead.

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The NCAA Men's rule book

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Please provide the citation where you are allowed to NOT grant a TO during an IW.

It's already been provided. You need to do a better job of reading what people are posting if you want to always jump on people for being wrong

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This is the rulebook in relation to the play in the OP

AR 46 Pg 17
Team A scores with 59.9 seconds left to play in the second half.
2. The official inadvertently blows his whistle to recognize a timeout
request by Team A when the ball is at Team B’s disposal for a throw-in:

RULING:
2: The inadvertent whistle shall be ignored. When Team A requests a
timeout during this dead ball, the timeout shall be recognized and
granted since the request occurred during the dead ball created by the inadvertent whistle. Substitutions are permitted during this
timeout period. However, when a timeout is not requested, there
shall be no substitution during the dead ball period created by the
inadvertent whistle.
(Rule 3-6.1.h)

Here is your initial response

I'm not granting the time-out after the IW because I'm not asking the coach if he still wants the time-out. I'm going to say "Inadvertent Whistle" and IMMEDIATELY put the ball back in play.

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Here's the rule relating to the OP and your original post. The whistle is already dead, why you wouldn't ask the coach if he still wants the TO is beyond me. If the coach says "Hey I want a TO" are you just going to ignore him too? I'm saying you are wrong because IMO it's awful game management. You have already screwed up and stopped play, if the coach want the TO grant it.

Now to this play. That foul came before the IW for the time-off request. They should have administered the foul and ignored the timeout request. Obviously blue the rule by saying a coach can call a timeout during a live ball other than a throw-in. Being under 1 minute left in the game has nothing to do with the play.

I'm disappointed because the person who blew the whistle for the time out is one of my best friends in the officiating so I'm going to have to ride him about this when I see him again.

I work the visiting Tom games. About six or seven years ago he would ended up with T for losing those free throws. His demeanor during game has improved a lot.

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Why do I have to ask him? You said I was wrong by rule, so I need you to show me where I was wrong by rule and not by personal preference.

My game management is to put the ball back immediately in play when we screw up and blow an inadvertent whistle. I do not stand around and conference with my fellow officials or ask coaches what they want. If the coach still wants a timeout then he needs to ask for it again.

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Fair enough. My disagreement was from a management standpoint, and nowhere are you obligated to ask.

Was the coach asking the official for a timeout or calling to his players to have them request a timeout? How do you decide which if you are the involved official?

I'm with BNR on this one. The request was first of all erroneous. You cannot in this situation as a coach request a timeout. Now that the official erroneously granted the request and we acknowledge the mistake and we move on. Not sure why that is hard to understand. And if the coach is so adamant about the request then he can make that request again and then it should be granted.

Peace