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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 13, 2017, 12:41pm
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IW - Time out by time not in control

Same coach as running out of bounds question. This one has a steak dinner riding on it. 2 man crew, JV Boys.

Team A has the ball. Coach B yells time out and the "T" right in front of the bench has a brain fart and blows whistle to grant time out. ( I am sure most of us have done that sometime in our past)

We know right away we have an IW. Now that the ball is dead, we confirm with Coach B that he still wants the time out and we grant it. Coach A is adamant that we have to call a T on Coach B for calling a time out without the ball.

I explain it is an officials mistake and an IW. The penalty for calling an excessive time out is a T. He says he has been teched twice for calling a time out without the ball. In fact he is so confident of the rule he told me he would buy me a steak dinner if he was wrong.

Would any of you call a T for the time out? The only case I could think of was if you believed Coach B was being deceitful and tiring to show you up.
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Old Mon Feb 13, 2017, 12:59pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyo96 View Post
Same coach as running out of bounds question. This one has a steak dinner riding on it. 2 man crew, JV Boys.

Team A has the ball. Coach B yells time out and the "T" right in front of the bench has a brain fart and blows whistle to grant time out. ( I am sure most of us have done that sometime in our past)

We know right away we have an IW. Now that the ball is dead, we confirm with Coach B that he still wants the time out and we grant it. Coach A is adamant that we have to call a T on Coach B for calling a time out without the ball.

I explain it is an officials mistake and an IW. The penalty for calling an excessive time out is a T. He says he has been teched twice for calling a time out without the ball. In fact he is so confident of the rule he told me he would buy me a steak dinner if he was wrong.

Would any of you call a T for the time out? The only case I could think of was if you believed Coach B was being deceitful and tiring to show you up.
If you called a technical foul, what rules support would you have for it?

The IW made the ball dead. Either coach can request a timeout during a dead ball. Grant the timeout. Eat poop from Coach A. Put it in play.
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Old Mon Feb 13, 2017, 01:06pm
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Enjoy your steak!
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Old Mon Feb 13, 2017, 01:11pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich View Post
If you called a technical foul, what rules support would you have for it?

The IW made the ball dead. Either coach can request a timeout during a dead ball. Grant the timeout. Eat poop from Coach A. Put it in play.
"Eat poop"? No, eat filet mignon. And be sure to tell that coach how you like your steak.

Sounds like a coach I had several weeks ago, who approached me during a stoppage to say, "I know you think you know the rule, but...." "Stop right there, coach."
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Old Mon Feb 13, 2017, 01:25pm
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If you called a technical foul, what rules support would you have for it?
IMO the only rules support would be 10-5-1b: "Attempting to influence an officials decision".

There would have to be history and an extreme situation for me to use this to call a "T", but I think the rule could support a "T".
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Old Mon Feb 13, 2017, 01:38pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wyo96 View Post
IMO the only rules support would be 10-5-1b: "Attempting to influence an officials decision".

There would have to be history and an extreme situation for me to use this to call a "T", but I think the rule could support a "T".
If you have to bend and mold the rule that much to justify a T for a situation that happens on a regular basis: don't.

If anyone was trying to influence your decision, it was the coach trying to get you to call a technical foul.
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Old Mon Feb 13, 2017, 01:41pm
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If I am a little slow I simply look at who is taking the time out request.. check the bench color and check back who has the actually ball. If it doesn't match I ignore the coach. Or say wait until you have the ball coach. If he is jumping up and down making a scene and the other team is not attempting to score you could whack him and tell him he can talk to his kids while we shoot the T's...

LOL
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Old Mon Feb 13, 2017, 01:54pm
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Originally Posted by Adam View Post
If you have to bend and mold the rule that much to justify a T for a situation that happens on a regular basis: don't.

If anyone was trying to influence your decision, it was the coach trying to get you to call a technical foul.
I agree.

The coach said he had been "T"ed twice and this is the only rule I could find that might support the other officials calling a "T" on him.

I know I never would, eat crow and move on.
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Old Mon Feb 13, 2017, 02:00pm
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I do not believe the coach. I bet he got T'd for other stuff than this situation. He probably was being a jerk while yelling for a timeout like coaches tend to be in those situations. He probably was told that he could not call for a timeout in that situation and overreacted to that response. I do not believe coaches half the darn time when they say anything in the first place.

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Old Mon Feb 13, 2017, 02:03pm
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I do not believe the coach. I bet he got T'd for other stuff than this situation. He probably was being a jerk while yelling for a timeout like coaches tend to be in those situations. He probably was told that he could not call for a timeout in that situation and overreacted to that response. I do not believe coaches half the darn time when they say anything in the first place.

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Half? should be down around 10% or less...
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Old Mon Feb 13, 2017, 04:03pm
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While we wait for BillyMac to post the case play...

Agree, enjoy your steak. Under NFHS rules, a timeout once granted (even if done so erroneously) shall be honored. Opposing coach won't be happy, and he'll have a beef (no pun intended), but it's an official's error and this is the prescribed way to move on.

At least one (both?) of the NCAA rule sets define this as an inadvertent whistle situation. No TO, give the ball back to the team in control or go POI if no team control. No talk of Ts in this situation, either. I prefer the NCAA interpretation and wish NFHS would go this route, but of course I administer under the applicable rule set de jour.

Afterthought: To clarify, if you thought the coach was calling TO but then you determine he clearly wasn't ("Five Out!"...."Time for a Rout!"), then it's just an IW and you don't need to force the coach to take a TO he wasn't requesting.

Last edited by crosscountry55; Mon Feb 13, 2017 at 04:08pm. Reason: Afterthought
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Old Mon Feb 13, 2017, 04:33pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I do not believe the coach. I bet he got T'd for other stuff than this situation. He probably was being a jerk while yelling for a timeout like coaches tend to be in those situations. He probably was told that he could not call for a timeout in that situation and overreacted to that response. I do not believe coaches half the darn time when they say anything in the first place.

Peace
This is what I was thinking too. He probably earned two T's and found a way to blame them on some timeout situation. I've given a T to a coach who came on to the timeout and demonstratively yelled, "TIMEOUT!" after a call that didn't go his way. That same coach enjoyed a seat next to his assistants for the remainder of the game.

Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
Opposing coach won't be happy, and he'll have a beef (no pun intended), but it's an official's error and this is the prescribed way to move on.
Rare to see a comment so well-done...
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Old Mon Feb 13, 2017, 07:07pm
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Originally Posted by frezer11 View Post
This is what I was thinking too. He probably earned two T's and found a way to blame them on some timeout situation. I've given a T to a coach who came on to the timeout and demonstratively yelled, "TIMEOUT!" after a call that didn't go his way. That same coach enjoyed a seat next to his assistants for the remainder of the game.







Rare to see a comment so well-done...


Especially in this medium
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Old Tue Feb 14, 2017, 08:26am
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Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
Agree, enjoy your steak. Under NFHS rules, a timeout once granted (even if done so erroneously) shall be honored. Opposing coach won't be happy, and he'll have a beef (no pun intended), but it's an official's error and this is the prescribed way to move on.

At least one (both?) of the NCAA rule sets define this as an inadvertent whistle situation. No TO, give the ball back to the team in control or go POI if no team control.
I think the effect is the same -- because once the IW happens in NCAA, the team can still be granted a TO.
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Old Tue Feb 14, 2017, 11:15am
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Originally Posted by wyo96 View Post
Now that the ball is dead, we confirm with Coach B that he still wants the time out and we grant it.
One follow up note: it doesn't matter if Coach B "still wants the time out" at this point. He gets it. Once you blow the whistle to grant the TO, he no longer has a choice.
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