Sub for shooter?

just another ref

I had this happen a couple of years ago. It seemed odd, but I see nothing illegal about it.

JRutledge

A sub can come in any time they are allowed by rule and can come in for anyone they wish. They do not have to declare anymore who they are coming in for. All they did was delay the substitution.

Peace

BillyMac

JRutledge wrote
They do not have to declare anymore who they are coming in for.

JRutledge is correct. Note the word "anymore" because this was not always the case.

One great source of incorrect rule myths is old rules that somehow never die, and never fade away completely (with apologies to General Douglas MacArthur).

3-3: A substitute who desires to enter shall report to the scorer, giving his/her number.

so cal lurker

BillyMac wrote
JRutledge is correct. Note the word "anymore" because this was not always the case. One great source of incorrect rule myths is old rules that somehow never die, and just barely fade away (with apologies to General Douglas MacArthur).

3-3: A substitute who desires to enter shall report to the scorer, giving his/her number.

Hmm. Is there more to that rule? That doesn't say the number of the player to be replaced. But I do seem to remember back when reporting as "25 for 31" - but no idea if it was required or just what we did.

BillyMac

so cal lurker wrote
... the number of the player to be replaced ... reporting as "25 for 31"

It was required in 2000-01. That requirement was removed in 2001-02. Thank God.

frezer11

I can't think of a reason why you would want to do this, but could a sub report to the table before the 1st FT of a 2 shot penalty, intending to sub in for someone other than the shooter, and choose to wait until after the 2nd FT? For example, if a sub for the defending team is waiting at the table, does he HAVE to come in after the 1st?

Adam

frezer11 wrote
I can't think of a reason why you would want to do this, but could a sub report to the table before the 1st FT of a 2 shot penalty, intending to sub in for someone other than the shooter, and choose to wait until after the 2nd FT? For example, if a sub for the defending team is waiting at the table, does he HAVE to come in after the 1st?

To help set up the press. Coach should just wait until the shooter has the ball for the last FT.

frezer11

Adam wrote
To help set up the press. Coach should just wait until the shooter has the ball for the last FT.

And of course I've seen this scenario, where the Coach is basically holding his player back after the 1st, and waiting until the shooter has the ball for the 2nd, but can the substitute actually deny the official beckoning them on after the 1st free throw? The coach should just wait, but does he have to?

BillyMac

frezer11 wrote
And of course I've seen this scenario, where the Coach is basically holding his player back after the 1st, and waiting until the shooter has the ball for the 2nd, but can the substitute actually deny the official beckoning them on after the 1st free throw? The coach should just wait, but does he have to?

Don't have to play a tick.

frezer11

BillyMac wrote
Don't have to play a tick.

To answer your subject line, I don't believe that is relevant to this specific point, of whether or not a sub at the table MUST come on to the court before the last FT, or if they are allowed to wait until after that final throw has occurred.

BillyMac

frezer11 wrote
To answer your subject line, I don't believe that is relevant to this specific point, of whether or not a sub at the table MUST come on to the court before the last FT, or if they are allowed to wait until after that final throw has occurred.

Can't a coach withdraw a substitute and wait until the next opportunity to send the substitute to the X in front of the table?

bob jenkins

frezer11 wrote
I can't think of a reason why you would want to do this, but could a sub report to the table before the 1st FT of a 2 shot penalty, intending to sub in for someone other than the shooter, and choose to wait until after the 2nd FT? For example, if a sub for the defending team is waiting at the table, does he HAVE to come in after the 1st?

Consider it a "withdrawn request" and then a "new request."

There are probably some who would say once the sub is beckoned, that sub becomes a player (unless disallowed by rule -- e.g., the sub is for the shooter) and must come in. I don't think that's a rule I'm going to enforce particularly strictly, unless it comes into play on a behavior issue.

Adam

frezer11 wrote
And of course I've seen this scenario, where the Coach is basically holding his player back after the 1st, and waiting until the shooter has the ball for the 2nd, but can the substitute actually deny the official beckoning them on after the 1st free throw? The coach should just wait, but does he have to?

I suppose one could make an argument that you could make him jump through the hoops in the right order. I'm not going to pick that nit.

And what bob said.

Rich

I'm not forcing a sub into the game just cause he's sitting there.

BillyMac

bob jenkins wrote
There are probably some who would say once the sub is beckoned, that sub becomes a player.

Almost got it. The substitute becomes a player when he legally enters the court.

3-3: A substitute becomes a player when he/she legally enters the court.

3.3.1 SITUATION C: Substitute A6 reports to the scorer just after the warning
signal is sounded during a time-out. The scorer advises A6 that he/she will not
be allowed to enter until the next opportunity for substitution. The Team A coach
beckons A6 to return to the bench. RULING: This is permissible. The substitute
is not obligated to remain at the table. However, A6 would have to report again
before being allowed to enter the court. If A6 remains at the table, he/she may
actually replace any player.