Purdue - IU Blarge

[RefCT]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Hasn't the ball been released in that case play? (I don't have the books handy).

We did go round-an-round on this when a double foul became POI (many years ago). If it's before the try -- team in control. If it's after the release -- count the basket (or arrow if the try is unsuccessful). If it's during the try (before the release) -- ?

Ok, I see the ball was released after contact in this game so the basket wouldn't have counted in either rule set.

[Dale3]

This is a charge, and I do believe that the C had the best look, it opens right up to him. However, the C needs to be far more patient, he should have been 3rd in line for a whistle here. This play was never in the Cs primary.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Yes, one can, and should, in my opinion. Most disagree. Consult your local listings.

The fact that every time we see this happen in a college game they go with a DF should tell you most of what you need to know.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Adam

The fact that every time we see this happen in a college game they go with a DF should tell you most of what you need to know.

That the college system is flawed?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Dale3

This is a charge, and I do believe that the C had the best look, it opens right up to him. However, the C needs to be far more patient, he should have been 3rd in line for a whistle here. This play was never in the Cs primary.

This line of thinking is about as "old school" as 3-person thinking can get.

The drive might initiate in the trail's primary, but he has a terrible look at this play. The L has to go a long way to get this from the end line, too.

Top half of the lane is a convergence area of primary coverages. The C is looking right through those players and clearly has the best look at the play. The L is just as wrong for hitting his hip as the C is for punching it right away.

[RefCT]

Originally Posted by just another ref

That the college system is flawed?

Out of curiosity, how would you explain it to a coach in a close game that knows the rule and just had his best ball handler (or shooter or big man) foul out, while the other team's player doesn't? Let's say they both had 4 fouls.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

That the college system is flawed?

Well that is a different issue, but they want a double foul on this and the rules support this. There was a video early in the year (Kansas vs. Indiana) where a blarge happen and the NCAA Supervisor said that this was to be a double foul by rule. So it appears no one agrees with you on this that matters.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by RefCT

Out of curiosity, how would you explain it to a coach in a close game that knows the rule and just had his best ball handler (or shooter or big man) foul out, while the other team's player doesn't? Let's say they both had 4 fouls.

Not sure an explanation is necessary, but if you feel that it is, in this case the explanation is clearly that: "My partner had a better look at it, coach."

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Well that is a different issue, but they want a double foul on this and the rules support this. There was a video early in the year (Kansas vs. Indiana) where a blarge happen and the NCAA Supervisor said that this was to be a double foul by rule. So it appears no one agrees with you on this that matters.

Peace

And if everybody in the NCAA is on the same page, that's fine. But the play in this thread is a perfect example of why the system is flawed. Two officials made two calls. One is right, the other is wrong, so the logical thing to do is.......... REPORT BOTH OF THEM??

Why?

[asdf]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Not sure an explanation is necessary, but if you feel that it is, in this case the explanation is clearly that: "My partner had a better look at it, coach."

and when the coach says....

"But by rule this is a double foul" .....


your response is ??

[BigT]

Originally Posted by asdf

and when the coach says....

"But by rule this is a double foul" .....


your response is ??

We want to screw one of you.. could you give us 5 minutes to decide who was a dumnut and we will get back to you...

Originally Posted by just another ref

And if everybody in the NCAA is on the same page, that's fine. But the play in this thread is a perfect example of why the system is flawed. Two officials made two calls. One is right, the other is wrong, so the logical thing to do is.......... REPORT BOTH OF THEM??

Why?

Ask the committee of coaches and administrators who write the rules!!

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

And if everybody in the NCAA is on the same page, that's fine. But the play in this thread is a perfect example of why the system is flawed. Two officials made two calls. One is right, the other is wrong, so the logical thing to do is.......... REPORT BOTH OF THEM??

Why?

Is the system flawed or is the official's mechanics flawed? The system as that this is the call of the Lead Official. So the Center should not even be expecting to signal on this play. Now we can question the judgment on this particular play with the official in the lead, but this is his call by mechanic. That is more of a hard fast "rule" in the NCAA level than it is in the NF or high school level mechanics. Because if you pick one, then the debate will be over who was actually right that should have reported the foul. So you cannot win either way. The bottom line is the Center should have held up but he was so eager to make a call, he helped cause this situation. He was also the person the furthest away from the call, so he should have been very judicious in making this call in the first place.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by asdf

and when the coach says....

"But by rule this is a double foul" .....


your response is ??

Are we talking NFHS? "No, it isn't."

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Is the system flawed or is the official's mechanics flawed?

In this case, both.

Because if you pick one, then the debate will be over who was actually right that should have reported the foul.

No more than the debate over whether any other close call was right or wrong.

So you cannot win either way.

If you get the call right, you win.