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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 04, 2017, 10:43pm
CJP CJP is offline
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I think these guys screwed this up, big time. Got the block/charge wrong and then made an error by awarding 2 points. Even if it was a block, the basket shouldn't have counted.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Sat Feb 04, 2017, 11:52pm
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Originally Posted by CJP View Post
I think these guys screwed this up, big time. Got the block/charge wrong and then made an error by awarding 2 points. Even if it was a block, the basket shouldn't have counted.
I think its a very poor sequence for this crew.

Would love to have seen the coach's reaction.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 05, 2017, 12:37pm
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Well I might get torn apart for it, but I'll go to bat for the lead just a little bit here. While I do still think it was a charge after several viewings, I also think it would be interesting to see an endline angle, which obviously is unavailable. Just before contact, W11 runs directly between the players and the camera angle, and just as he gets out of the way, the contact is occurring, and the kid who took the "charge" has his right leg at a weird angle outside of his frame, whereas it didn't look like that before the view is interrupted. This could imply that he was, in fact, sliding to his left at the time of impact. (Although I do acknowledge that his could be part of him bracing for contact as well, as I said, I'd love to have an unobstructed angle of the full play)

I realize I'm analyzing this too far, and as I said, I still think it was a charge, but the more I've watched it, the less certain I think I am-
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 05, 2017, 02:22pm
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Good crew

Saw a lot of the video before becoming aware of Rut's condensed version. This was a very good crew and well officiated game. It wouldn't surprise me if all of them have some college assignments. Don't these college have guidelines directing them to go "block" on close iffy plays. Around here, we all follow Women's college mechanics and philosophies. And, this year at camp, even the Women clinicians were advocating a "block" on 50-50 plays. I guess they need more scoring???

I don't think the L was surprised by the play and could have seen some sideways movement. I have no idea how they could move to CM but as someone pointed out, these guys did not get to look at video.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 05, 2017, 02:41pm
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Originally Posted by LRZ View Post
Alternative facts?
I tend to error on side of calling charge. Hard to get kids to take one. Having said that, offense is airborne and looks to me that defender is leaning left into his path. Falls toward block. I'm not able to say this is an obvious charge from our angle.

I do agree based on video that the basket should not count if block is call. In real time I'd understand if it was missed. Happens quick.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Sun Feb 05, 2017, 05:03pm
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Originally Posted by ronny mulkey View Post
Don't these college have guidelines directing them to go "block" on close iffy plays.
No. At least not on the Men's side. They want you to call a charge if you have a charge by rule. What Women's side does is a mystery to me, but as a high school official it is clear that they mirror more the Men's philosophies or positions on everything from positioning and rotation philosophies.

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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 06, 2017, 03:24am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronny mulkey View Post
Saw a lot of the video before becoming aware of Rut's condensed version. This was a very good crew and well officiated game. It wouldn't surprise me if all of them have some college assignments. Don't these college have guidelines directing them to go "block" on close iffy plays. Around here, we all follow Women's college mechanics and philosophies. And, this year at camp, even the Women clinicians were advocating a "block" on 50-50 plays. I guess they need more scoring???

I don't think the L was surprised by the play and could have seen some sideways movement. I have no idea how they could move to CM but as someone pointed out, these guys did not get to look at video.
It is a pretty good crew. Pretty sure one does D1, certain one does JC, not sure about the third. It was a well done game.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 06, 2017, 05:35am
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Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
No. At least not on the Men's side. They want you to call a charge if you have a charge by rule. What Women's side does is a mystery to me, but as a high school official it is clear that they mirror more the Men's philosophies or positions on everything from positioning and rotation philosophies.

Peace
Women's take a lot of their lead from the WNBA regarding training/philosophies.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 06, 2017, 09:04am
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Originally Posted by Hawkeyes View Post
Is there still be a belief by some officials that the defender has to "take the contact" in order to have a charge?
We must rid the earth of such thinking!
Explain for the casual observer, please!
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 06, 2017, 09:18am
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Originally Posted by bossman72 View Post
Explain for the casual observer, please!
Some would say:

"If the defender is moving backwards, it's not a charge."

"If the defender doesn't get run over, it's not a charge."

"The offense must go 'to and through' the defender to be a charge."

"If the offense alters the path slightly so the contact is shoulder-to-shoulder and not torso-to-torso, it's not a charge."
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 06, 2017, 09:32am
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Originally Posted by so cal lurker View Post
Pause at first contact: ball is still in air toward the shooter. (And yes, I realize they don't get to do that and it's a really tough call to make live.)
The easy, and CORRECT call, is to wave off the basket. What we really have here is a team control foul and the basket should not have counted as the contact occurred before the shooter is even going up. To count this basket is terrible officiating.

Unless he clearly got the shot off before the contact, this is an easy basket to wave off.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 06, 2017, 09:48am
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Originally Posted by frezer11 View Post
Well I might get torn apart for it, but I'll go to bat for the lead just a little bit here. While I do still think it was a charge after several viewings, I also think it would be interesting to see an endline angle, which obviously is unavailable. Just before contact, W11 runs directly between the players and the camera angle, and just as he gets out of the way, the contact is occurring, and the kid who took the "charge" has his right leg at a weird angle outside of his frame, whereas it didn't look like that before the view is interrupted. This could imply that he was, in fact, sliding to his left at the time of impact. (Although I do acknowledge that his could be part of him bracing for contact as well, as I said, I'd love to have an unobstructed angle of the full play)

I realize I'm analyzing this too far, and as I said, I still think it was a charge, but the more I've watched it, the less certain I think I am-
I agree with you. I have a charge from our angle, but it's possible that the defender's leg may be extended outside his vertical frame. I'm not going to say that the video is 100% conclusive.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 06, 2017, 10:48am
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Originally Posted by ronny mulkey View Post
Women's take a lot of their lead from the WNBA regarding training/philosophies.
I know and one of the reasons I have less respect for their decisions.

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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 06, 2017, 10:56am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronny mulkey View Post
Women's take a lot of their lead from the WNBA regarding training/philosophies.
I was under the impression that the WNBA, NBA, and D-League all operate under the same training philosophies.
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Mon Feb 06, 2017, 12:18pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ronny mulkey View Post
Saw a lot of the video before becoming aware of Rut's condensed version. This was a very good crew and well officiated game. It wouldn't surprise me if all of them have some college assignments.
I know 2 of the 3 officials very well...both are excellent playcallers. I think the L missed the play, but I think this is a tough play live. 2 bang/bang occurrences.

I have been texting the crew chief and they felt like shooting motion had started when l blew his whistle...They didn't have video to review. He has looked at the video and would change things. He also told me that they are going to review this play at their next chapter meeting.
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