Weird Coaching Box Situation
 

BV game, home coach is known for being a barker. He kept a soda at the table and every so often during the first quarter, he'd slide up to the table and take a sip, yell instructions to his team, etc. At the quarter break one of my partners tells him he can't do that anymore, with the reason being if we continued to allow that, we would have to allow the V coach (who chose not to even stand most of the game, but that's beside the point) the same privileges. Wasn't going to happen. So he told the coach to take his soda to the bench or forget about it.

As we move to the locker room for halftime, I see out of the corner of my eye the home coach having a discussion with his AD. Partner tells someone to get the AD so we can explain the situation. Partner explains our reasoning (you know, the rule), and the AD replies with "I understand, but our coach's concern is that he thinks you three came into the gym with the intent to get him." I couldn't believe my ears.

Am I right to be upset about that? I understand the sentiment from the coach (who hasn't been that guy once or twice?) during the game, but to hear that from an athletic director's mouth at halftime of a game?

TL;DR Coach questions our integrity through his AD because my partner properly enforced a rule.

First, if you were there to "get" him, you could have stopped his questionable behavior from the beginning.

Second, even if you were there to "get" him, in this case you had every right to do so.

This is the part I don't get. Why? Not necessary. Who cares what the AD thinks or is told?

Your partner broke into jail here. The hurt feelings you're experiencing could have been avoided altogether.

I would tell the AD in no certain terms, "If I wanted to get him, we would have just enforced the rule the first time, not ask him to comply." Then I would after the game send a note to the assignor/supervisor about the situation and tell him/her what the coach and AD said.

Peace

I'm not sure, but the guy has about 20 years of experience on me so I wasn't going to question him.

Also, ADs are the ones who are in contact with our commissioners. I have a lot more respect for ADs than I do coaches.

I am a commissioner. I completely agree with the "breaking into jail" comment.

But ADs can be problems as well. Just because they have a higher responsibility, does not mean they cannot get out of whack either. Sometimes they are worse as they think they act like they have more power than they really do. The officials decide what goes on in-between the lines with the rules and sometimes outside if it influences what goes on in those lines. The AD is to help you do your job better and not interfere.

Peace

"He can't leave the coaching box. There aren't exceptions in the rules for soda breaks."

And I agree that summoning the AD was a mistake. Go about your halftime business (get to the dressing room, discuss what you want, and get back) and enforce the rule. Coach has been warned, which was far more than required.

And yes, if you were out to get him, you wouldn't have even warned him.

It sounds like something is missing from the story. How do you have any idea what the coach and AD are discussing? You warned him after the 1st Q. I assume he complied throughout the 2nd Q. I would have assumed they were talking about something else, because the drink issue was a non-issue at that point.

I'm thinking this is one of those things that I wouldn't give a crap about unless the coach made it a big deal. I mean, what is it, two-three feet to the table for him to take a drink? Must just be me but who cares?

As long as he is quiet or at least not yelling at us, its not on my radar.

Depending on the size of the table, its probably a little further, but I think that I conditionally agree. By that I mean, if it was a college size court, and they use an 8 foot table, he's walking pretty far. On short courts with longer tables? It's probably a lot closer, and not something I would consider to be much an issue. For the same reason that if a coach is 2-3 steps outside of his box giving orders to his kids, if he's coaching, and not complaining, then I'm pretty lenient. In the OP, he walked to the table, said something to his team, and returned to the bench. As long as its a non-issue, I'd prefer to leave it a non-issue.

And I agree entirely with the "breaking into jail" comment. I'm not sure I've heard that description used, but that's exactly what this was. What did you expect the AD to say when you come looking for trouble? I'd rather him tell the truth about the conversation, but I don't think I'd ever get to that point.

I never really gave this any thought until reading this thread, but I now realize that I don't like the coach's box. There are coaches who feel the need to be on their feet the entire game and I don't think they are actually coaching. Don't get me wrong, I have seen very good coaches who are on their feet actually doing good things with their players. For the most part, I think coaches are on their feet to give the appearance that they are doing something.

Coach, Please Get Back In The Box ...
 

Coaches yelling at officials from anywhere outside the coaching box (and, of course, yelling at the officials from inside the coaching box) annoy me.

Coaches coaching from outside the coaching box usually don't annoy me, unless they're way down in the corner, or standing in front of the table, with standing in front of the table being the greater annoyance to me.

Serious question: So?

Serious answer, I guess. The original post made me think about the big issue, in my opinion, which is coaches who must be on their feet. Hence, my comment. I think these forums can be great. I know there are a lot of topics that generate a lot of thought that I don't comment on. I shared a thought that came to mind after reading the original post. I am sure my comment will invoke someone else thought process. I am sorry it went over your head and all you can come up with is "so?".

I gave you a serious answer. Now I have some serious questions for you. What is your problem? Do you have any real friends? What is your education level?

Oh you are a commissioner? You must be a big deal. Still not impressed.

I want to know why coaches standing and not coaching is such a problem. Last thing I want to do is have to police coaches who are standing and not coaching. Or have a seatbelt rule, which I lived through for about 12 of my first 30 years. I've said here before that I'd give coaches the full 28 feet as they get in the NCAA.

All of my friends are officials. 2 Masters degrees.

Your two Masters Degrees sure made you advanced. I was supposed to get all that from "so"? Just ask the question for some civil dialog instead of projecting yourself.

Anyway, if coaches are not actually coaching then there is no reason for them to be on their feet. If they are constantly up and not coaching then they are more than likely complaining or officiating the game from the bench. Obviously there are issues or this thread would not have came about. I do a pretty good job of handling the situation when I have to. Probably not as good as you with your 30 years of experience but I can hold my own. The worst interaction I had with a coach was because of him standing on the floor. I was a coach before I became an official and the worst interaction I had with an official was because of issues with the coach's box. A seatbelt rule would make our lives easier but I am not advocating for that. I never said anything about policing either. A person can not like something and make it work.

I have always thought this. Aside from calling out plays, what really is the point of a coach yelling the bs they do? If we were to stop and think, the more a coach yells, to me, would parenthetically mean the worse coach the are. If you have to tell your players to rebound, box out, hands up, move your feet, push it, outlet, swing it, one more pass, etc etc all the fricking time during a game, it just sounds poor to me. Means to me they didn't get taught enough in practice. I've always thought that, even all the way up to the best coaches.

And I posted that above before I read the rest. I'm not trying to get into yalls pissing contest. I don't care about a seatbelt rule, except as it's now written is fine with me. I was just making an observation as simply that, not advocating for making a rule change or something else for us to police. I was just saying I have always thought it was humorous how some (most) coaches feel a need (entitled) to stand and talk the whole game, regardless of what they are saying.

Well at the end of the day, what matters are what the people you work for think. That is really all that matters. If you live in an area that does not care, then you can have whatever position you like on this. But there are places that make this an issue, after all it is a rule. And if it wasn't a rule, we might have coaches in front of the opponents bench or at the 3 point line because they can. Heck we could just have coaches sit and not worry about where they stand. Makes no difference to me honestly.

Peace

I remember several years ago Tubby Smith was on the endline during play where he would of been in the L's pocket if the L was on that side and working out wide.

Back several years ago when I was doing a lot of youth rec league, I had a female coach that would of been in the opposing coaches box had there been lines. Took me a while to figure out what was wrong with it as its not something I would ever expect to see.

This is ridiculous. For the most part??? You're wrong. They are actually coaching, changing the defense, calling the offensive sets, changing matchups, signaling, calling timeout, etc... and they do this while standing so that they can be more easily seen and/or heard. Pay attention to your job more.

Not that I am complaining and since you brought it up, it would be easier to pay more attention and do a better job if coaches would coach and quit trying to tell me how to do my job (while pacing in the coach's box). Plenty of good coaches out there and appreciate them.

All coaches complain. But, contrary to your statement, for the most part, they are up to coach their team and make sure communication is received.

Ok so I realize the horse is probably already dead by now……but OMG. Overreaction of the year nominee! And it's only February.

Hey, CJP, apart from the fact that Rich is a distinguished moderator of this forum with the authority to ban you, he also happens to be a very good official and an upstanding gentleman.

Stop goofing off. If you'd like to unprofessionally whine without consequence, find another forum, please.


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I know many coaches that do not complain about hardly anything. They have a job to do and try to worry about coaching their players than telling us what to do. One of the winningest coaches in our state said, "Every time I talk to officials about a play, that is an opportunity I am not coaching my kids."

If they cannot do this in the box, then they really do not know how to coach if you ask me.

Peace

You are right, I did not handle that well. Rich mentioned that this place can get a little "toxic" at times. I was suprised that a moderator would have such a rude response. You say he is distinguished, maybe so. I have not been around long enough to see that. But in my short time I see him more as a bully. I was aware he is a moderator and expect more out of authority figures in these settings. Moderators should nurture conversation not open the door for "toxic" dialog. Regardless, I could have handled it differently. He can ban me if he wants. I won't contribute much any how.

it *might* help if you thought of it as a "coaching box" and not as a "coach's box." A difference that describes the activity and not the person.

And, FWIW, I understood exactly what Rich was asking.

When I post in threads, it's done as a member. Period.

If I cross a line, any of the other Moderators have carte blanche to delete the post or counsel me in our private FB group.

I'm a bully? Really? Would you have thought that from any other poster? Did I once threaten to ban you or even implicitly throw any moderator weight around in this thread?

Rich, I don't know you. I am sure you are a great guy like crosscountry55 said. The response "so" is right up there with "why is this even an issue" as far as disrespect. We are not standing in the same room, if you don't like what someone says, you don't have to reply. Those responses are an attempt to project superiority; a bully tactic.

I am not very PC. I will call things how I see them. On that note, Crosscountry55 did use the acronym "OMG" and has lost all big boy privileges; my 7th grade daughter uses that term.

I think this a great tool for officials to gain a lot of insight into many situations. I have read about situations on here that I have not encountered yet but feel prepared if I ever face them. I have also read about how different officials handle different situations and have incorporated that into how I conduct myself. People cannot be afraid to share thoughts because someone will answer with a "so" or "why is this an issue". Be helpful and create good dialog. Except for Crosscountry55, he talks like a 7th grade girl. Not that there is anything wrong with that if you are a 7th grade girl.

I am very sorry for the hardship this may have caused. I am sincerely sorry.

Thank you for that. This supports my feeling that if you are not actually coaching then sit down.

Not that IGAF either way and I haven't even read all the posts, but you can come across however you like because you are not PC, but if Rich types something you don't like he is a bully?

I'm just trying to get the proper interpretation here.

No, it is not because he said something I don't like. Not that IGAF about you not GAF but think harder.

I had the same reaction as Rich, I just didn't post it because it wouldn't add much to the conversation in my opinion. $.02

And you say Rich is using bully tactics? Your hypocrisy made me "LOL."

By the way, one Master's degree here as well plus a diploma from the U.S. Army Command and General Staff College.





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Why is this an issue? I'd much rather have a coach standing up being an pain than sitting down doing the same. S/He can't hide in the crowd standing up.

I dont get the rabbit ears some guys have and are always concerned with coach reacrions, especially when they have better things to do.

I actually was using it as a tactic to try to draw more out of him. It worked, just not how I would've liked.

There was once this mindset that the coaching box should only be used when a coach is actively coaching -- otherwise he shouldn't be up and about.

Frankly, I found that idiotic. It implied that I'm supposed to care why a coach is up out of his seat and I simply don't have time or the inclination to do that and also work the game at the same time. He has a 14' box here and he can do whatever he likes in it -- if he's unsportsmanlike, we have other rules that cover that. If he's out of the box? Then I care more about what he's doing. I'll admit that a coach who's coaching while a bit out of the box doesn't bother me a bit unless my bosses tell me to handle that.

Our lower levels used to have a seat belt rule and I think there were more instances of a coach acting up because of the "bottling up" effect that being forced to sit caused.

Is there a way for a user on this forum to block post from certain posters from showing?

Don't make me put my moderator hat on again. Please.

Hey, slow down, CJP. You join the board and almost immediately start attacking people? Address the basketball issues and ignore the personalities. Otherwise, you'll either alienate everyone or risk be banned as a troll. Just because you can speak your mind doesn't mean you have to respond to every perceived slight, especially with personal attacks. Now, that is, to my mind, bullying.

I'm closing this thread.

FWIW, two posters in this thread appear to be the same person (unless, of course, they have the same IP address at about the same time) and what's worse they appear to be talking to each other in this thread to "support each other." I'll let you try to figure out who those two people are.

Having duplicate identities without approval is a violation of our rules here and it's clear now to me that one of them is being used to troll others.