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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 24, 2017, 06:27pm
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To the OP- you say you get it but every thread you start suggests otherwise. You do not seem to have a good grasp of basketball fundamentals and little understanding of officiating IMO.

You say you play year around and prepare yet I still see plenty of poor play. Just like many officials do this year around and prepare and still will make some poor calls. Because we are all human.

I would echo pretty much everything Big Cat said. You are not going to get the highest quality officials around for mediocre girls travel and even HS ball. That's just the way it is.

I actually watched this whole video as I'm very early for a game. 9 minutes of my life I will never get back. 2 things I saw worth minimal discussion.

Around the 4:20 mark is an obvious taunt that the officials should not have missed. And there are several examples of dribblers trying to split defenders that were properly no called per rule 10-7-7.

Other than that I mostly see/hear trivial complaints about marginal plays that are not conclusive even on slo-mo replay.

At this level of play as a parent or coach you have A Lot to work on in improving skill level and should really worry A Lot less about the officiating.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 24, 2017, 06:42pm
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I think we should go through the video and count all the bad plays run by your team which would indicate bad coaching. I'm sure there's more of those than of the good plays they ran.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 24, 2017, 06:45pm
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The free throw violation needs to be called. It's obvious and crew looks like idiots not calling it. Trail needs to help referee. First time girl turns ball over I try to say something to her to be careful. It's also obvious. If she dribbled ball and caught it with two hands and dribbled again we'd all call it regardless of ad v disadvantage. It is that bad. The spin move may be a foul but if no foul ball is OB on white. Good call. The sideline play is OB on blue but ball given to them. That's a tough call. Happens quick. The guy isn't nuts in reviewing the plays.

He's a fan/parent and will never understand until he referees. There are wrong calls in the video. They are going to happen. If you are willing to pay Jeff, APG and badnews you might be happier.

Last edited by BigCat; Tue Jan 24, 2017 at 06:49pm.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 24, 2017, 07:03pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
The free throw violation needs to be called. It's obvious and crew looks like idiots not calling it. Trail needs to help referee. First time girl turns ball over I try to say something to her to be careful. It's also obvious. If she dribbled ball and caught it with two hands and dribbled again we'd all call it regardless of ad v disadvantage. It is that bad. The spin move may be a foul but if no foul ball is OB on white. Good call. The sideline play is OB on blue but ball given to them. That's a tough call. Happens quick. The guy isn't nuts in reviewing the plays.

He's a fan/parent and will never understand until he referees. There are wrong calls in the video. They are going to happen. If you are willing to pay Jeff, APG and badnews you might be happier.

Thank you for this assessment. Could you please comment on the play that starts at 2:26? Blue 12 switches her pivot foot three times before releasing the ball for the dribble and then extends her elbow into White 22's chest while driving by.

There is no travel call and instead a blocking call is made against #22?
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 24, 2017, 07:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xyrph View Post
Thank you for this assessment. Could you please comment on the play that starts at 2:26? Blue 12 switches her pivot foot three times before releasing the ball for the dribble and then extends her elbow into White 22's chest while driving by.

There is no travel call and instead a blocking call is made against #22?
Your missing my point. I'll look at it but I will trust you in what you say. Wrong call made. Until u put the whistle in your mouth you will never ever understand. We don't care who wins your game. There will be mistakes in my game, APG and Ed Hightower's. It's just a fact. The lower u go the more mistakes.

Your team just has to be better.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 24, 2017, 08:10pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCat View Post
The free throw violation needs to be called. It's obvious and crew looks like idiots not calling it. Trail needs to help referee. First time girl turns ball over I try to say something to her to be careful. It's also obvious. If she dribbled ball and caught it with two hands and dribbled again we'd all call it regardless of ad v disadvantage. It is that bad. The spin move may be a foul but if no foul ball is OB on white. Good call. The sideline play is OB on blue but ball given to them. That's a tough call. Happens quick. The guy isn't nuts in reviewing the plays.

He's a fan/parent and will never understand until he referees. There are wrong calls in the video. They are going to happen. If you are willing to pay Jeff, APG and badnews you might be happier.
You're calling that FT violation? ok.

And there's no way I'm even addressing that "carry" in my games. The thing is, the quality officials at the high school level aren't making those calls in my area. So these "missed calls" have nothing to do with officiating quality.

Well, that's not true. That FT violation is a gotcha call around here, and in a travel game if I hear the coach make the comment I heard on the video, he's either getting shut down or tuned out very quickly.

As MD Longhorn put it, this isn't happening to him because hundreds of officials are getting it wrong. If it's happening to him every game, he might want to figure out if his own filters are set too high for this stuff.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 24, 2017, 08:25pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
You're calling that FT violation? ok.

And there's no way I'm even addressing that "carry" in my games. The thing is, the quality officials at the high school level aren't making those calls in my area. So these "missed calls" have nothing to do with officiating quality.

Well, that's not true. That FT violation is a gotcha call around here, and in a travel game if I hear the coach make the comment I heard on the video, he's either getting shut down or tuned out very quickly.

As MD Longhorn put it, this isn't happening to him because hundreds of officials are getting it wrong. If it's happening to him every game, he might want to figure out if his own filters are set too high for this stuff.
These are not travel games. Not sure why that keeps being brought up. These are games from this season. It's not hundreds of games and it's not hundreds of officials. Our girls do train year round and do participate in travel ball, but each of these clips is from this school season.
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 24, 2017, 08:44pm
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Originally Posted by Adam View Post
You're calling that FT violation? ok.

And there's no way I'm even addressing that "carry" in my games. The thing is, the quality officials at the high school level aren't making those calls in my area. So these "missed calls" have nothing to do with officiating quality.

Well, that's not true. That FT violation is a gotcha call around here, and in a travel game if I hear the coach make the comment I heard on the video, he's either getting shut down or tuned out very quickly.

As MD Longhorn put it, this isn't happening to him because hundreds of officials are getting it wrong. If it's happening to him every game, he might want to figure out if his own filters are set too high for this stuff.
You have to do what you have to do. The FT shooter is half way in the paint before ball at rim. Gotcha call? Not even close. Your toe touches line is a gotcha call. Again, obvious violation. It's not an advan v disad call. It's a blatant violation. As a crew, u look like idiots if this happens. Now, I know it does happen to good crews. It still isn't something I should pass on.

(APG is right about slo mo. id like to see it in fast speed before saying how obvious it is)--the Carries

And again, when there not called it doesn't mean someone is cheating. It's the quality of official or their philosophy as you see in this thread. Nobody really cares who wins that game. Again, until you pick up the whistle you just can't understand.

Last edited by BigCat; Wed Jan 25, 2017 at 09:26am. Reason: APG is right about the slo mo
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 24, 2017, 09:29pm
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I watched the whole thing. I saw several refs who need to hustle more and call a better game. But to say your team is getting screwed by refs is ludicrous. Why didn't you show any plays of refs missing calls that went against other team? From your assessment of the refs, there should be some. The only play I thought was egregiously missed was the taunt. Gotta see that. Other than that, it's mostly just a coach who doesn't know the rules, proven by your precious posts, bitching about refs. What else is new?

Here's your advice on how to solve this:
www.nfhs.com, buy a rule book, actually read it and the case book.
Stop looking at plays through jaded eyes of a coach and be an unbiased arbiter and you would realize most of what you think these guys are missing is just not there.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 24, 2017, 09:39pm
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I watched the video with the audio off so I did not hear the complaining.

My advice would be to understand that all officials miss calls every game and that it should all balance out in the end.

I saw a couple times where players set screens and fell to the floor on contact that I do not consider excessive. It didn't appear to me that they were falling to the floor for any purpose other than to draw a foul. They are taking themselves out of the play by falling to the floor and are not likely to draw many fouls when setting screens.

You should understand that you cannot expect officials to get every call right. Every time a player falls to the floor in hopes of drawing a foul, they are taking a risk (A) they will draw the foul, (B) they will be called for a foul, or (C) there will be no call and they will be on the floor while a basketball game is being played. What they do affects the outcome, but they are forcing the official to decide the outcome. It is a risk, but you shouldn't be surprised when you don't get the desired outcome. Your team can play in such a way that they are less dependent on the officials.

I have also coached my children's teams with officials who I know and have worked with. Call the official "R" and say that he is a man, but the same could be said of almost anyone I consider to be a good official. I watch R in a varsity game and think he is a good official. I work with R in a varsity game and think he is a good official. I watch R in a rec game and think he is a good official. I work with R in a rec game and think he is a good official. Then, I have a rec game where I am the coach and I see R miss a lot of plays. The first couple times, I thought R just had a bad game as I know that R isn't cheating against me as he is friendly the next time I see him. I realized that the problem is that I see plays a lot differently as a coach because a coach has a rooting interest. A lot differently. As a coach, I want R to call every marginal play in my team's favor.

As an official, it helps me to realize that the coaches see things from a biased perspective.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 24, 2017, 11:26pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam View Post
You're calling that FT violation? ok.
The one at the beginning of the video?

Every time. I agree -- we look dumb if we don't.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 24, 2017, 11:28pm
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Originally Posted by BigCat View Post

The blue player carries the ball blatantly repeatedly. Not just once. Multiple times. These aren't small carries because the ball is flat etc. again if it's not obvious I pass. If a player dribbles, catches and dribbles again I assume you'd call it. Regardless of advantage. These carries are that obvious to me. Again, I'd try to talk to her after first one. I can't make u see what I see and vice versa.
Till she uses that carry, I'm not really bothered by it.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Tue Jan 24, 2017, 11:42pm
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Originally Posted by xyrph View Post
Look I get it. Officiating is hard. It's difficult to make split second decisions and to be right on each throughout a whole game.

My players practice all year long. We do travel ball. We prepare. It's frustrating when the officials of a given game let so many clear violations by opponents slide and then make calls against us.

It happens every game. I start off the games giving the benefit of the doubt and by the 2nd quarter, I'm often steaming.

What I've chosen to do this year is just compile a video of some of these and it's certainly been cathartic.

I'd like to share it with you in the hopes that you can see the frustration these calls cause the teams, coaches, parents, fans.
0:03 INC FT shooter violation
0:15 CNC carry
0:21 CNC carry
0:29 CNC carry
0:41 CNC travel, INC shooting foul, IC OOB direction
1:06 IC OOB direction (via slo-mo I have CC)
1:40 CNC push through screen
2:02 INC contact on airborne shooter
2:27 INC travel, IC foul
2:54 CNC foul
3:16 IC foul
3:44 IC foul
4:13 INC foul, CC OOB direction, INC taunt
4:47 CNC blocked shot, CC OOB direction
5:12 INC foul
5:33 IC OOB direction
6:06 CNC pushing through screener
6:24 CNC splitting two defenders
6:38 CNC on marginal block/charge
6:53 CNC marginal contact on arm after ball gone, IC OOB direction
7:13 CNC marginal contact after made layup
7:40 CNC held ball, CNC marginal contact on steal
7:49 INC held ball
7:59 CNC carry
8:26 INC foul
9:00 CC foul, defender never had legal position
9:46 CNC carry

19 correct, 16 incorrect, 54% CC percentage on these tough plays.

Girls basketball is ugly. A couple of these could go either way based on how tight/loose the game is being called. Reply back if you want specifics on any of the plays.
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 25, 2017, 12:15am
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Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Agree. It's called advantage/disadvantage, and despite what some on the Forum say, advantage/disadvantage does apply to some violations. Now, if she uses that move and goes by a defender, then I will probably have a whistle on the play.
Which violations does it apply to?
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Wed Jan 25, 2017, 12:22am
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Originally Posted by xyrph View Post
Look I get it. Officiating is hard. It's difficult to make split second decisions and to be right on each throughout a whole game.

My players practice all year long. We do travel ball. We prepare. It's frustrating when the officials of a given game let so many clear violations by opponents slide and then make calls against us.

It happens every game. I start off the games giving the benefit of the doubt and by the 2nd quarter, I'm often steaming.

What I've chosen to do this year is just compile a video of some of these and it's certainly been cathartic.

I'd like to share it with you in the hopes that you can see the frustration these calls cause the teams, coaches, parents, fans.

Looks like you grabbed a handful of "bad" calls that went against you from a handful of games. Actually, i think only about 1/2 are wrong, maybe less. The stands are often not the best angle. Go through your videos and find some "bad" calls that went in your favor and post that. It will give you more credibility.
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