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-   -   Messed up 1 and 1 (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/102104-messed-up-1-1-a.html)

Cole4088 Fri Jan 13, 2017 06:36pm

Messed up 1 and 1
 
Official signals 2 but it was one and one. Shooter misses ball comes back to shooter then she throws the ball out of bounds. Since the official messes up. Is it AP arrow or other way?

Hugh Refner Fri Jan 13, 2017 07:54pm

Just curious - how did the ball come back to the shooter after the miss?

BigCat Fri Jan 13, 2017 08:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole4088 (Post 997373)
Official signals 2 but it was one and one. Shooter misses ball comes back to shooter then she throws the ball out of bounds. Since the official messes up. Is it AP arrow or other way?

Arrow. I'm assuming no one tried to rebound.

SNIPERBBB Fri Jan 13, 2017 08:24pm

2.10.1 SITUATION J:

A1 is fouled by B1 while in the act of shooting and the try or tap is successful. The administering official erroneously awards and announces two free throws instead of one. A1's first attempt is unsuccessful and B1 rebounds. Play continues briefly with B1 advancing the ball before the official recognizes the error and stops play.

RULING: Since A1 has attempted the merited free throw he/she was entitled to, there is no further correction to be made. Play shall resume with a throw-in by Team B at the out-of-bounds spot nearest to where play was interrupted.

BigCat Fri Jan 13, 2017 08:35pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 997376)
2.10.1 SITUATION J:

A1 is fouled by B1 while in the act of shooting and the try or tap is successful. The administering official erroneously awards and announces two free throws instead of one. A1's first attempt is unsuccessful and B1 rebounds. Play continues briefly with B1 advancing the ball before the official recognizes the error and stops play.

RULING: Since A1 has attempted the merited free throw he/she was entitled to, there is no further correction to be made. Play shall resume with a throw-in by Team B at the out-of-bounds spot nearest to where play was interrupted.

But see 8.6 something. Official providing erroneous info. Official says 2 shots when supposed to be one. Since no one move or one team at disadvantage go to arrow. If all try to rebound, play on. My mind is mush.

Cole4088 Fri Jan 13, 2017 08:37pm

Free throw shooter missed off the front of the rim.

Camron Rust Fri Jan 13, 2017 08:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 997376)
2.10.1 SITUATION J:

A1 is fouled by B1 while in the act of shooting and the try or tap is successful. The administering official erroneously awards and announces two free throws instead of one. A1's first attempt is unsuccessful and B1 rebounds. Play continues briefly with B1 advancing the ball before the official recognizes the error and stops play.

RULING: Since A1 has attempted the merited free throw he/she was entitled to, there is no further correction to be made. Play shall resume with a throw-in by Team B at the out-of-bounds spot nearest to where play was interrupted.

This case is not relevant. It is about a situation where the players play it as a 1+1 despite the official's announcement to the contrary.

In the OP, the players didn't play the rebound. The ball came back to the shooter randomly. I'm guessing she thew it towards the endline to the official. Either way, I'm going AP on this one since most (or all) of the players played it as a 2.

deecee Fri Jan 13, 2017 08:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hugh Refner (Post 997374)
Just curious - how did the ball come back to the shooter after the miss?

really?

SNIPERBBB Fri Jan 13, 2017 08:43pm

Thr OP doesnt say whether anyone else played the the ball or not. If they didnt, it is AP.

BigCat Fri Jan 13, 2017 08:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole4088 (Post 997378)
Free throw shooter missed off the front of the rim.

Did players just stand there or did they make an effort to rebound? Interesting. Lets say everybody froze except shooter. He gets rebound dribbles twice then throws ball out of bounds. Players were motionless because of erroneous info but does that have to be caught at that time to go to 8-6? Rule says ball should be declared dead immediately. If shooter rebounds, play continues, he or she dribbles around and then fires ball out of bounds. Is there any correction to make?

That isnt a 2-10 a-e error...

I know what id do but i just want to see what think rules require

bob jenkins Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCat (Post 997382)

I know what id do but i just want to see what think rules require

If "everyone" acts as if it really was 1-1, then just play on.

If "no one" acts as it it were a 1-1, go to the arrow.

In between, well, sometimes you have to officiate.

BigCat Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 997387)
If "everyone" acts as if it really was 1-1, then just play on.

If "no one" acts as it it were a 1-1, go to the arrow.

In between, well, sometimes you have to officiate.

We'd like to think that if no one moves the officials would figure it out. Let's say they don't. ball comes to shooter. He dribbles around then throws it away. Then they realize something wasn't right...I'd like to think I'd never let it get that far. I'd still go to the arrow. I think that would be right thing to do still. Not sure technical rules would agree. Your thoughts?

BillyMac Sat Jan 14, 2017 08:28am

Erroneously Awards Two Free Throws ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 997387)
If "everyone" acts as if it really was 1-1, then just play on.If "no one" acts as it it were a 1-1, go to the arrow.

8.6.1 SITUATION: A1 is about to attempt the first of a one-and-one free-throw
situation. The administering official steps in and erroneously informs players that
two shots will be taken. A1's first attempt is unsuccessful. The missed shot is
rebounded by: (a) B1, with all other players motionless in anticipation of another
throw; (b) A2, with all other players motionless in anticipation of another throw;
or (c) B2, with several players from both teams attempting to secure the rebound.
The officials recognize their error at this point. RULING: In (a) and (b), the official's
error clearly put one team at a disadvantage (players stood motionless and
didn't attempt to rebound). Play should be whistled dead immediately and
resumed using the alternating-possession procedure. In (c), both teams made an
attempt to rebound despite the official's error and had an equal opportunity to
gain possession of the rebound. Play should continue. (2-3)

Adam Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee (Post 997380)
really?

It's a legitimate questions since there are a couple of different possibilities.

deecee Sun Jan 15, 2017 07:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 997399)
It's a legitimate questions since there are a couple of different possibilities.

There are plenty of scenarios/times where the ball goes back to the shooter after a miss.

bob jenkins Sun Jan 15, 2017 08:34am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCat (Post 997388)
We'd like to think that if no one moves the officials would figure it out. Let's say they don't. ball comes to shooter. He dribbles around then throws it away. Then they realize something wasn't right...I'd like to think I'd never let it get that far. I'd still go to the arrow. I think that would be right thing to do still. Not sure technical rules would agree. Your thoughts?

I'm confused because going to the arrow is the "technical rule" in the play you describe.

BigCat Sun Jan 15, 2017 09:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 997452)
I'm confused because going to the arrow is the "technical rule" in the play you describe.

The case play 8.6 that billy set out above says officials recognize their error just after ball rebounded. One team disadvantaged so go to arrow etc. The correction comes under this rule and case play.

Suppose the rebound comes to the shooter with most if not all on lane thinking it was 2 shots because officials announced it. Little to no effort made to rebound. Unlike the play in 8.6, let say these officials still dont recognize the screw up. Shooter dribbles around and either throws it out of bounds or say she scores. In other words, play continues. After the ball is thrown out of bounds or basket made everybody starts yelling about it. Now they go to the table and figure it out.

Is it too late, technically speaking, under the rules to correct this? It is within the correctable error time frames but this really isnt one of the a-e in 2-10. Sniper's play doesnt really say if everybody attempted to rebound but we see in it that play it goes to POI. Do the rules require us to recognize and fix this right away? If we dont and play continues do we say too late to address it.

I havnt had it happen and if it did id still go back to the arrow rather than saying it is too late to fix but im wondering if that is supported under the rules. Hopefully, its a never in a career play. Just curious...

Adam Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee (Post 997449)
There are plenty of scenarios/times where the ball goes back to the shooter after a miss.

Yes, and he was wondering which one because the right way forward depends on the answer.

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