Purdue-Ohio State block/charge (C's whistle too quick?)
 

3:28 second half. It was called a block and there was a double whistle. I don't believe it was an RA play, and as such I'm not sure what the defender did wrong.

I do not know either what defender did wrong? The announcers said something to effect of ''the defender [B1} did not establish [LGP] prior to A1 leaving the floor for the shot". Yet that seemed at best faulty reasoning---if not altogether teleological.

Here is the play.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/pL3xDZayLqM" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

This needs to be called. I see no reason the C would not make a call on this and IMO this is more his play. So no, I do not feel he is too quick. But they got together. I just feel it was wrong. I do not see what the defender did wrong. He was there before the player left the floor.

Peace

They were probably looking at that left leg dragging over after the initial set.

And still sliding over after the shooter left the floor....along with the torso shifting with it. If he hadn't still been moving sideways after the shooter left the floor, the contact may have not occurred or, more likely, not been as substantial. Thus, it was/is a block.

Yup, that's what I have.

Plus, the legs extend well beyond the shoulders and there is
leg contact with the shooter outside the torso. Clear block for me.

Yeah but they sure looked bad getting together to discuss quickly -- that even goes beyond "eye contact"

Jeff and I are on the same page here. Furthermore, all of the Defender's movement after he established a LGP is within his Cylinder of Verticality.

MTD, Sr.

Since when is sideways movement considered part of verticality?

Another good play for discussion.

P#31 was a secondary defender during OSU#3's outnumbered fastbreak drive to the basket.

IMO, P#31 moved laterally when OSU#3 was airborne and the contact occurred.

From the 2016-17 NCAA Men's Rulebook:

:D Obviously I'm going to agree with that statement! I was observing a high school BV game in my area the other night and there were at least 4 plays almost identical to this one and each time there wasn't even a double whistle. The C had charge of the play. He knew it, the Lead new it. Beautifully executed.

Question: How,when or at what point would you determine #31 to be the secondary defender? When the video begins, the dribbler has already passed #12 from Purdue just outside of the 3 pt. arc. From that point, it appears the play is just the dribbler vs. #31. Not necessarily questioning your statement. I just am not sure. Could #31 be considered the primary defender in this specific play?

Good question. If I'm the C in transition, I would have considered P#12 the primary defender who gets passed; P#31 becomes the secondary defender.

Missed It By That Much ...
 

Is that anything like the Cone of Silence?

http://thingsthatmadeanimpression.fi...onesilence.jpg

Count me among those that say "block".

I have no problems with their getting together. As they could have been talking about the RA, which is what you do in those plays. It was so quick it was insignificant to me and what the NCAA talks about doing in these situations.

Peace

If we are talking about how much he moved laterally, than we are talking about an inch or two. He was basically there waiting on the contact. He even took the contact in the chest. I would not at all consider that outside of the movement stated in the rulebook. I am going to give the benefit of the doubt to the defender in this case most of the time. It would be one thing if he slide over a couple of feet, but he is trying to take the contact. The only thing it seems like you would require is for him to be totally still, which is not the requirement for the rule.

Peace

Appreciate the feedback but respectfully disagree.

It's not the only thing I require but I sure would not allow lateral or oblique movement of a secondary defender (even an inch or two) into an airborne shooter, which is indeed stated as a foul in the rulebook.

I was mentored under the old adage of giving the defender the benefit of the doubt and for them to take it in the chest to get that offensive charge call. With the induction of the RA in the college game, you do yourself more harm in keeping with that thought process. The supervisors I work for have instructed their staff to move away from that philosophy and that was a directive given above them. It's taken some time but I'm doing my best to adhere to the change.

We either adapt or get passed by those who do.

And I disagree that he "took it in the chest." White's knee hit Black in the shoulder. If he doesn't slide over more after the offensive player is airborne, the contact is negligible if there is any at all.

You have every right to disagree. But I think we are splitting hairs if that is lateral movement after the shooter has left the floor. But again this is after all a judgment call. The officials on the game called a foul on the defender. I would hope I would not in this case. And the RA only comes into play if you have them in the RA in the first place, which it does not look like that is the case. But it was asked by the OP to see if that was the case. Also my comment about giving the benefit of not penalizing the defender if they are not "perfect." The shooter could have pulled up. But again that is the philosophy that I live by.

Peace

au contraire mon frere...this was EXCELLENT officiating! If these were anything other than top-level D1 officials, this would have been a blarge (in a girls HS game it probably would not have had a whistle - cause the officials wouldn't know who should've blown their whistle). If you think that an official "looks bad"when getting a play called correctly, then it seems as though your priorities are mis-placed.

it was sarcasm -- related to another thread.

Considering JD Collins is lamenting the number of blarge calls on televised games by "top-level D1 officials" on one of his recent video posts, this comment is especially ridiculous.

Fiba
 

In the FIBA mechanics, lead takes this play coming to him.

From my view as lead there is only a primary defender. white had no defender guarding him as beat everybody else. B31 stepped up outside RA in legal position and established before shooter was air borne. He took on small step with his right leg sideways as shooter went air borne. Which in my understanding of FIBA rules he is allowed to move and maintain LGP.

I would in FIBA have on offensive foul called from lead.

It is a close play- 2 whistles are OK, coming together and getting what the believe is the right call - too bad they got the wrong call!

Yes, and some of us got it immediately.

I have to be honest. Watching live on full speed I said block. In slow mo I thought PC.

I can live with it either way and the way it was handled here was 100% appropriate for the play.

The title of the post has me confused. Isn't this the C's call? Its on his side of the lane, and was in position. If anything, was the L's whistle too quick?

I agree its a block, and since there was a double whistle, don't mind the mini-conference, but wouldn't it be better for them to both hold, and then the C take the call?

No. In NCAA-M plays in the lane involving secondary defenders are the leads primary responsibility.