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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 05, 2017, 10:37pm
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Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
I see the same possibility. Told some folks that in a non-officiating forum. Definitely not 4 steps. The earliest he may have gathered is with the left foot down followed by a right foot-left foot step sequence, which would be a travel. But I could see an argument for that the gather wasn't complete until the right foot was down.

Bottom line, it's not as blatant as people want to make it seem. As Adam pointed out, the high dribble throws it off.

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Count me in the camp that thinks this was not a travel, or perhaps a very marginal one at best. Not blatant. Also, it took me looking at the play in slow motion ten times to come to that conclusion, which says something. If I'm the slot and I'm not 110% sure in that situation, my lips are sealed.

What looks bad isn't always bad. I've had lots of occasions where I thought I might have missed a travel (as did one bench and half the crowd), only to look at the video later and determine that I indeed did not miss it. Of course I've also confirmed some of my own NCIs, but we won't talk about that.

Bottom line is that these types of travels are very hard to have a reasonable level of certainty on, especially when focusing on torsos and restricted areas at the same time. Many of them get missed. Maybe Steve Kerr is on to something with the idea of assigning a fourth official that focuses solely on travels. Not that I ever want that idea to come to fruition....
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 06, 2017, 01:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef View Post
Bottom line, it's not as blatant as people want to make it seem. As Adam pointed out, the high dribble throws it off.
Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 View Post
Bottom line is that these types of travels are very hard to have a reasonable level of certainty on, especially when focusing on torsos and restricted areas at the same time. Many of them get missed.
Thanks for the input fellas, lots of "bottom line" opinions.

I'm on the side with you guys as it's not as easy a call on the floor to make as it seems.

The peers in my area are of the mindset on this type of play (and I'm one to agree with): "I'd rather miss a violation that IS there, than call a violation that IS NOT there."
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 06, 2017, 02:15pm
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Originally Posted by Nevadaref View Post
This is a blatant traveling violation. The player took FOUR steps after ending his dribble. It is unfortunate that the winning score resulted from this. The defense didn't have a fair chance.


WRONG.

Not even close to four steps. At most it's a pivot foot lifted and returned, no worse than any other travel.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 06, 2017, 03:10pm
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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
WRONG.

Not even close to four steps. At most it's a pivot foot lifted and returned, no worse than any other travel.
He ended the dribble with the right foot on the floor (right foot the piviot) and stepped to his left, his right (travel), and then his left one more time.

So, it is more than a basic travel of lifting the pivot and returning it. He did that and still took one more.

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Last edited by Camron Rust; Fri Jan 06, 2017 at 03:15pm.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 06, 2017, 03:13pm
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Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
He ended the dribble with the right foot on the floor (right foot the piviot) and stepped to his left, his right (travel), and then his left one more time.

So, it is more than a basic travel of lifting the pivot and returning it. He did that and still took one more.

I have the left as the pivot.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 06, 2017, 03:18pm
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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
I have the left as the pivot.
My image wasn't loading right when you replied. Look at it now...ball clearly in both hands with the right foot down just after the left came up....before 3 more steps.

The only way the left was the pivot is if he actually caught it before my first screenshot....but that would make it even worse.
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 06, 2017, 03:18pm
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Whichever foot was the pivot, he lifted and and returned it to the floor. I see 3 steps. It is a clear travel and a miss by the officials. Because it is a last second play, it is going to be magnified. I would be interested to know what the Big 12 supervisor rules on the call.

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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 06, 2017, 03:19pm
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Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
My image wasn't loading right when you replied. Look at it now...ball clearly in both hands with the right foot down just after the left came up....before 3 more steps.
At the risk of sounding like someone else here, I still have the left as the pivot. Regardless, it's still a travel.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 06, 2017, 03:24pm
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If I slow it down. He may have touched ball with two hands ending dribble, 5 feet outside 3 line.

I don't like slowing it down because I don't referee in slow mo. It happens so fast and, again, at that level they are accepting that it is ok. I wish we had a view of Weber to see if he is screaming travel. As I mentioned earlier, I called a euro step travel next play down my partner doesn't. Problem.

If it's allowed on both ends it isn't a complaint. I don't like it but as I've said before, it does the game no good if I'm the only person calling travel.

There's no doubt this was travel.
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jan 06, 2017, 07:50pm
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Originally Posted by Rich View Post
At the risk of sounding like someone else here, I still have the left as the pivot. Regardless, it's still a travel.
Can I ask what, in the screenshots I provided, leads you to not see the first frame as holding the ball with the right foot on or just coming down to the floor? (I know you're not suggesting he had picked up the ball on the prior step on the left foot.)

Are you saying that, live, you would have only recognized the left as the pivot due to the speed? (OK with me if that is what you're saying)
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Last edited by Camron Rust; Fri Jan 06, 2017 at 07:54pm.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Sun Jan 08, 2017, 09:14pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust View Post
He ended the dribble with the right foot on the floor (right foot the piviot) and stepped to his left, his right (travel), and then his left one more time.

So, it is more than a basic travel of lifting the pivot and returning it. He did that and still took one more.

Unless there had been travel calls on similar plays throughout the game, I probably would have passed on it and then wondered if I got it correct. With that much time, I am probably more focused on whether the player got the shot off in time or whether any contact is marginal or not. Then again, I've never worked a game with the benefit of having instant replay to determine whether the horn sounded first.

I think it comes down to when the dribble ends and I don't think the dribbler has two hands on the ball in the first picture. It looks like it in the picture near the half-court logo, but not when you watch the replay (around :28). He might not have two hands on the ball until both feet are in the air around the three point line (generous interpretation). Then, each foot touches the floor once, which would make this a correct no call.

Last edited by JeffM; Sun Jan 08, 2017 at 09:24pm. Reason: Clarify that saying the dribble didn't end until both feet were in the air is a generous interpetation
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Mon Jan 09, 2017, 04:03am
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Originally Posted by JeffM View Post
I think it comes down to when the dribble ends and I don't think the dribbler has two hands on the ball in the first picture. It looks like it in the picture near the half-court logo, but not when you watch the replay (around :28). He might not have two hands on the ball until both feet are in the air around the three point line (generous interpretation). Then, each foot touches the floor once, which would make this a correct no call.
First, two hands on the ball isn't necessary. When the ball comes to rest in one hand, the player is holding the ball and the travel rules come into effect.

However, even if we go by your opinion of when the player got two hands on the ball, it is still a travel.

For it to not be a travel, he would have had to catch it no sooner than near the FT line where the right foot is coming down.
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