The Downside of Double Whistles
 

The responses you, esteemed and seasoned veterans of the Forum, give to this inquiry will help our local association trainer develop a training lesson on the topic of "Double Whistles". The initial aim is, by means of a review of approved (NFHS) mechanics and video illustrations, to prompt our officials to avoid double whistles. I probably coulda stated that better, but you get the idea.
Please complete the statement below with a brief response or two:

"Double whistles should be avoided because . . ."

This is fine and dandy but a waste of time IMO. A better use of education would be

"When we have a double whistle, I as one of the whistlees must...."

They aren't going anywhere so isn't it better to just address the what to do after?

My thinking is similar to Deecee's, in that its more important to learn how to handle them. I've never even been involved with discussions on how or even IF they ought to be minimized. All I can think of is that you are hoping to keep people from ball watching.

It depends. Sometimes, they're good. Sometimes, they're an indication that someone is ball-watching.

If you have a double whistle on a hand-check clearly and well into one one official's primary, that is probably not a good double whistle.

If you have a double whistle on a rebound with lots of contact, that is OK.

If you have a double whistle on a play at the boundary of two primaries, that is fine too....better to have both briefly on-ball rather than neither on ball.

Unless the double whistle is an indicator of another problem, it is not a problem on its own.

Agree with those above. I would never say that double whistles should be avoided. Often times, they are a very good thing. Best to train officials on what to do when they occur......


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As long as each official is taking care of their primary, then I have no problem with double whistles.

I'll give you an example of a double whistle that irked me a bit...

During a free throw, I was the center, and therefore responsible for watching the free throw shooter and the top two marked lane spaces on the opposite side. A teammate of the FT shooter I was responsible for violated, and right before I blew my whistle my partner... who was the trail... blew his for it. At halftime I asked him what the trail official during a FT is responsible for. He knew the answer, but said he was looking there because nothing else was going on.

I don't buy that answer, because we all know that while things are good now, that doesn't mean they can't change for the worse at the drop of a hat. He should have been watching his area, and trust his partner (me) to watch mine.

That is an example of a "bad" double whistle.

Whistler

As written, the statement isn't necessarily true. Not all double whistles are bad. Instead, I would emphasize the need to slow down after making a call to avoid conflicting signals.

There are situations where good cadence / timing means that we can avoid having a second whistle. But that doesn't mean double whistles should be avoided necessarily.

It's what we do with double whistles that's important. If I come right out and hit my hips on a block and my partner points the other way, that's a problem.

In addition to the comments above about what to do after a double whistle, I think it would be more beneficial to give training on how to officiate your primary coverage area, a secondary coverage area, and more importantly, each match-up on the floor.

If you have three officials appropriately covering each match-up on the floor, with an understanding of primary coverage and secondary coverage areas, you minimize unnecessary double whistles but ensure every play is covered adequately.

You are starting your training with a faulty premise, in my opinion.

I simply do not believe that there is anything wrong with double whistles. Often they are very good because they show that you are watching the same thing. But in the lane double whistles are common.

Peace

ALL these responses are being forwarded. Thank you for those thus far given. Any more thoughts on the general topic of "Double Whistles" that haven't been expressed?

What about triple whistles...had one in my game last night. Two of us had #10, one had a different foul on #33. The one with #33 yielded, not because he was outnumbered but because the other two of us had the best views (and before he even know we had different players). There were at least 3 possible players to call the foul on for the play....multiple defenders collapsed on a shooter in the lane from different directions.

Heres my impression of double whistles as a coach.

Scenario A: Double whistle, officials look at each other, one takes charge and makes a call, other official puts his hand down, nods, and administers then next play while "take charge official" reports the foul. I move on.

Scenario B: Double whistle, officials look at each other, then they kinda shrug at each other, they may even have the same call but they don't know and they have a meeting to discuss what happened/whats next. I'm not only irritated but I have to wonder why someone cant just grab a pair and make a call. I don't care what is called normally, but I do care that someone knows what they saw and does so with authority, not because they drew the short straw.

Scenario C: Double whistle, one official indicates a block immediately and other official indicates a charge immediately, they get together and decide one official had a better look and make a call. Again, if you make a call, stand by it. If you call a charge and he calls a block and you did so with such emphasis that you signaled immediately, then stand by it. Id rather see a double foul than have one official talk the other into backing off of whatever they think they clearly saw.

In B, it may be that there are two different things that happened. They need to figure out which happened first and it is possible that neither can know that without having the discussion.

In C, if one talks the other out of their call, they are not following the rules (NFHS or NCAA-M).

Do double whistles, to some coaches, have a sort of "confirmatory" effect? "Well, if they both saw it, it must have happened that way"? Or no? Or is that to general to deserve an answer one way or the other?

Hey Partner ...
 

"I got a good look at your held ball but I had a holding foul right before the held ball occurred".

I Hate It When That Happens ...
 

Some (but not all) coaches are very observant. "Your partner had an open hand up for a violation, while you had your fist up for a foul".

I think we should all use double whistles.

http://www.thewhistleshop.com/catalo...ole/stefan.jpg

Double whistles are not necessarily a bad thing. Just don't give a prelim. I'm in 2-man state. We probably have more than 3-man although it's been so long in 2-man I can't remember anymore.

Point is, you need to discuss how you will handle them and don't prelim right away. I work with regular P so we give up to person who is PCA as a general rule but have exceptions like when 1 official has mad e the last several calls. If we believe we may have different calls, we will ask the other and get the "nod". Either way, pregame how you are going to handle double whistles because they happen and are not a bad thing; it's how they are handled that is important.

The Downside of Double Whistles
 

No traction at all to move to 3-person?

I haven't worked a 2-person game in 3 years now. If they ever went back, I'd retire. 30 years in...any more is gravy.

More double whistles in 2-person.

In 3 I generally like to give the primary official the first crack and hild my whistle an extra beat. If he hits it, I don't. If he doesn't, I come and get it.

How many coaches or fans would even know (other than the audible sound) or care about a double whistle? As a practitioner, you/we make it an issue, but I can unscientifically promise you that unless coaches, players or fans are astute observers of officials and mechanics, they don't care one bit about this.

Double whistles are only an issue when you have two different calls. To the point that was made earlier, it could be the symptom of an underlying problem. So address the underlying problem.

Having 2 whistles on every foul at the rim means that the crew just doesn't have good whistle discipline. If I can't, as the outside official, hold for a beat to let my lead, in his primary, have the only whistle on the play......why?

Sure we have a fair number of double whistles -- in areas where primary areas overlap. But there are some that just don't need to happen if officials have patient whistles.

My question on double whistles is this... Why are you looking there instead of your primary?

There are fine reasons for them (like the lead following somebody driving from their PCA into the lane), though.

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So what if the play takes place in the lane? Many of the players are going to be in the lane and most of the competitive match-ups will be there if the ball is there as well. So that is one reason I would be looking there as a T or C for sure. And the Lead is not going to see certain plays as they spin away from them or the contact or violation happens while the lead is looking through bodies.

Even in a two person game (which I was not originally referring to), there are plays on the back side that would be only seen by the T and not the L. So you might have a double whistle easily for those reasons.

PCA does not mean, "only my area." It means it is your primary, but there are several reasons to have secondary coverage.

Peace

Actually they think we all watch the same darn thing anyway. And if you call something in what they think is in front of someone, they think that only that person should have had a whistle. Which is silly based on what we know to with our mechanics. Even if it is your line or it is a play right in front of them, they think you are supposed to "help them out."

And if you have two different calls, then you might just need to address the two different calls. For example a travel might have happen before a crash. Well it is proper to call a travel if you see one and if it was caused by a foul, then that should be addressed as well. Either way, if you have discussed this in pregame or have a basic philosophy, you often just tell the coach, "I had the same thing." How are they going to really know anyway? All they care about are the calls right. They will still argue with you if the call goes against them and they felt you did not get something in their favor. So who really cares what coaches, players or fans think.

Peace

I called a rebounding foul as the trail yesterday and one of the assistants started to argue that only the lead should be making that call. I told the HC to let his assistant know I really didn't need his help.

I never said there weren't other good reasons to have double whistles. And the point is to make sure each area is covered.

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Pick A Prize From The Top Shelf ...
 

My nomination for Post O' The Month.

I am unable to download a PDF. Chrome thinks this is an audio file.

Correct PDF File Link Now
 

To the extent that perhaps one or two might be interested, here's a PDF of the PowerPoint lesson our association trainer came up with. The perspectives of some of the responders to this thread contributed to some of the points he made.
Totally FYI. Feedback welcome, if any have any on anything.

Correct Link to Double Whistle Lesson PDF

With all respect to your trainer, who obviously put a ton of work into this, was this entire power point lesson presented at just one meeting?