Pointing direction at tip
 

Just wondering, do you point direction of each team at the tip? I've seen it different ways. Any reason for doing so or not doing so?

We do it here in Virginia, just before the toss (and again if there is an overtime period). It just reinforces to the players (and us) which way each team is going. However, the officials manual does not say the we have to do it.

Also, has anyone been instructed to not do so, by an assignor or fellow official?

I did away with it at the HS level. If they're facing the right direction, it kind of insults the players' intelligence and makes the R look corny.

Tell me the last time you saw this done in a college game on TV.


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If I am working a HS game, I do not care what they do at the college level for everything. Not even a consideration to what I will do.

BTW, I do point in each direction.

Peace

Don't care what is done at college level. Not interested in doing college ball. If college only refs here what to answer what they do, I'd like to hear that answer but just because it is or isn't on TV doesn't make it right or wrong. I abhor multiple tweets of whistle for obvious calls but again, just bc a ref on tv does it, doesn't make it right

I will continue to happily emulate the actions of those who have risen to a level higher than I. With exceptions, of course (mechanics differences, decidedly bad actors, etc.), but in general this practice has served me well not only in basketball officiating but in other facets of life, too. Not sure why some on this forum are always so quick to discount the leaders of the profession.


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Not a basketball official. Would this be the equivalent of a baseball umpire saying ball four, take your base, and pointing to 1B?

Ive never done it. It doesnt hurt anything to do it but all i care about is that there lined up facing the proper direction. Personally, I might do it for 4th graders and under. Anybody else that needs to be told what direction there going, after the jumpers are lined up properly, has other things to worry about.

That's coaching to me. If kids get ball and go wrong way after being lined up properly that's on the coach.

Nothing wrong with that stance, but keep in mind that a lot of college officials do a lot of thing that are not advocated by the people they work for or the NCAA. That was obvious by the very first video bulletin this year and a play we discussed on this site. Now if the conversation was only what college officials do (and I am one of them) then that might make since. But keep in mind many things we do at the college level would not be allowed at the HS level. Not discounting, just realize that everything is not as simple as you are making it to be.

Peace

Put me down as someone that doesn't point

Not really, because 1B is always the same place for both teams regardless of who is at bat. Now, if they reversed the base order each inning for whatever reason, it would be similar.

Well, Here's Another Nice Mess You've Gotten Me Into (Oliver Hardy) ...
 

Several years ago, the officials in a University of Connecticut mens game sent the players in the wrong direction during the jump ball to start overtime. It turned out to be a real mess.

Refs Botched Last Night's UConn-Marquette Overtime, Had Teams Shoot At Wrong Baskets, May Have Cost UConn The Game

Remember Wrong Way Corrigan (1938) ???
 

In my high school games, when I'm administering the jump ball to start the game, I point to the right side bench, say "Blue"; point to the jumper standing to my right, say "Blue"; and point emphatically to the left in the direction Blue's basket and say, emphatically, "Blue".

Then, I point to the left side bench, say "White"; point to the jumper standing to my left, say "White"; and point emphatically to the right in the direction White's basket and say, emphatically, "White".

Then I sound my whistle, drop the whistle from my mouth, toss the ball, and we're on our way.

It takes an extra five seconds, but I'm never, ever, starting the game going in the wrong direction, unless the players screw up, and I can't control that.

(Of course, this procedure is slightly modified to start an overtime period.)

That was a Hess mess. I personally learned from that. I still don't point, but at the beginning of each game or extra period (especially the latter), I look at the centers and consciously ask myself, "Are they facing their basket?" Works for me. More than a few times I've caught teams lining up the wrong way for OT and have corrected them.

The Hess mess was super-botched because instead of just fixing the direction when the error was discovered, they wiped a basket or something like that which impacted the score. Totally kicked the rule.


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Emulate their professionalism. Emulate their communication (although not the BS they have to accept from coaches). Emulate their ability to move to a spot that gives them a better view. This is a mechanics issue, though. Whether they do it really has no bearing on whether we should.

I frankly don't care on this issue. I do it, but I really couldn't tell you if my partners have. I could just as easily drop it if an assigner or other official I trust advised me to let it go.

That's how my captain's meeting became one sentence long.

To me this is on the level of what you and how you signal on a FT or if you blow the whistle or not on a throw in. Do what works for you and move on.

Peace

I point

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The pointing issue is not addressed in the NFHS manual. On the other hand, the manual specifically says not to whistle before a throw-in except after a timeout, intermission, or unusual delay.

And yes, I know that not every state uses NFHS mechanics.

Free Throw Whistle ???
 

Connecticut officials were observed by IAABO interpreters during last season's State tournament finals. They were criticized for not sounding their whistles before administering free throws after timeouts.

Few, if any, officials here in my little corner of Connecticut do this (I can't speak for the rest of Connecticut), even though, by the book, we're supposed to do it. We do it for throwins after a timeout, intermission, or unusual delay, but not for free throws. Not sounding whistles before administering free throws after timeouts is just our local custom, handed down from our ancestors, from generation to generation, as basketball mechanics were discussed around the campfires of the past.

What the story regarding this mechanic for other Forum members?

They actually told us here to blow our whistle more. So yes there are little differences. And we have not been giving a NFHS Mechanics book in over 10 years. It is not a big deal in these minor situations.

Peace

I believe the reason for strike signals and such given by umpires was to relay information about the call to those that can't hear them. It's not necessarily for the benefit of the players/batters.

Therefore, the point to first base is simply a way to let those that can't hear the ump say "ball four, take your base" to know it's a walk.

However, I'm not a historian on that, I just heard it somewhere.

Only time I ever pointed directions before the tip was for rec-league. Never did it for any level of HS/MS ball.

I've been having issues with teams going wrong way, which leads to a complete Hess situation if you don't see it immediately. My problem is assuming teams know which way to go, realizing sometimes they do not. I'm going to move to pointing direction with goal being getting game off on right foot.
Thanks for your thoughts on this fellers.

I'm not discounting them at all. I just said because a college ref does it (or doesn't) doesn't make it right (or wrong). That goes for any topic you could discuss. I know the guys on TV are the best and we should def try to be as good as they are, but they are not infallible. And I doubt they would claim to be.

What level are you having this problem?

Which is exactly why I stated my awareness that not every state, including yours, uses NFHS mechanics, as you note often on this forum.

In SC, most of my partners would be perplexed if I started blowing the whistle before every throw-in I administered. Why? Because that's not the proper mechanic for my state, and the manual we use makes that clear.

The Hess situation happened because the crew didn't know the rule. If the crew correctly applies the rule, the situation isn't nearly as bad as it ended up being.

I never blow my whistle when resuming on a free throw. I find that, well, weird.

+1

What is the reference in the manual that says you point or do not point?

Peace

Nonexistent. Whereas the manual specifically addresses the whistle issue. That's the difference.

There are a lot of things we do as officials that never get into any manual. My point is that you cannot use the "manual" as a standard for what you do for everything or even most things. The CCA Manual is much more extensive and specific about many things you never see in the NF book, but I know I do many things the NF never talks about. This is just one of those things that are not mentioned or even covered on any level. The CCA Manual gives information about how to rotate, I do not recall I have ever seen such a thing in the NF book or a breakdown (I will go look to be sure). But that does not mean officials do not use a philosophy to rotate that might never be covered in the NF book.

Peace

Fair enough, and I acknowledge the "when in Rome" factor. However, I consider the whistle issue that you and I are debating more comparable to an official choosing not to visibly count in the backcourt and just using the clock.

It is required, under NFHS mechanics, that you visibly count 10 seconds in the backcourt. It is required, under NFHS mechanics, to not blow the whistle before a throw-in except following a time-out, intermission, or unusual delay. It is not required (or prohibited), under NFHS mechanics, to signal the direction for each team prior to the jump ball.

I am not even talking about a specific area thing. I am talking about there are many things we do as officials that the book never mentions or does not mention until much later. I bet if I moved to your area I would do some of the same things I do now. That is why we have these sites in the first place to discuss many aspects of officiating that have nothing to do with what is obvious or always subscribed. And the perfect example is the recently added signal for "running the end line" when we were using that signal for my entire officiating career and now it was added last year. Just like the "kick" signal that we used for at least a decade of my career, only to add the signal the the chart.

I am not suggesting either that we should have add a procedure for this. I am just saying people will continue to do it or not do it for their own reasons.

Peace

By The Book ???
 

If I got a dollar for every time, over thirty-six years, that I observed an official here in my little corner of Connecticut sounding their whistle before administering free throws after timeouts, I would have enough cash to, maybe, buy a short cup of coffee at Starbucks.

Must be an association thing, because I don't do it.

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I work both and I don't do it in either.

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I sound my whistle.

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Not thought a bout the whistle after to and start with free throws but.....I believe I sound it as well. Been a long time since it happened I guess.

I'll stick my two cents in. I'm not sure who you are addressing, but obviously it was directed to one or two of the comments above yours.

I can't speak for anybody, but I think the main point of one or more of the comments was that they were looking for what the right thing to do in high school is and they don't really care what happens in higher level basketball. They weren't discounting the leaders of the profession.

Someone also made the comment that they don't like the multiple whistles (aka "notice me" calls) on obvious calls they see on TV. I tend to agree with them. Some of the "leaders" of the profession are looking to grab as much attention as possible. I like the leaders that blend in and do a great job.

I'm not going to discount the leaders in the officiating profession and I am thankful for the information and guidance given by some on this board. On the flip side, just because you see it on TV doesn't necessarily mean it's the right or only way to do it.

Great post! Agree with you 100%. My captains meeting is short. They aren't listening anyway.

I point and I do it because I think the high school level players are getting dumber. I'm not sure they know which way they are going. Coming out of time outs, 9 out of 10 times, most teams don't even know who's ball it is.

I point to not have the teams start with a mess. If I was told to not do it, I would have no problem stopping.

I let the players assume their positions, and as I'm walking to the center I check with partners to make sure they are good to go, check with table to make sure they are ready to go, say "here we go", blow the whistle, bounce once, and toss. Pointing seems hokey to me.

What's the point in pointing?

For me, it's to remind the teams which way they are going. Where I live, the kids here are clueless and they don't know or remember most of the time. Especially girls games.

Sounds like the kids in your areas are a little smarter and don't need the reminder.

Honestly, I could probably get away with not doing it, but I know I have had more than one occasion where the teams didn't know prior to me pointing.

This years IAABO disc has a jump ball segement where Tom Lopes says the referee checks off with their partners and indicates direction of play.

But unlike the other plays he points out the officials mistakes, he passes no comment on it.

It's weird sitting a room with officials who are getting dinged and praised on the same videos though.

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I got dinged on it for not blowing my whistle in my floor exam. Done it ever since and switched states and still no one has never said not too.

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Both IAABO states? I've never lived in an IAABO state.

Smart Players ...
 

OK, so you don't point, I've got no problem with that.

Nowhere in your post do you state that you check to see that the players are going in the right direction. You must be officiating some pretty smart players in don't have to check and you never run into problems, especially if you get to overtime.

I think it's to bolster synergy.

Pointing is going to do far less to prevent problems than ensuring the jumpers are each on the correct side. In all honesty, that's why I point, for myself. The kids aren't listening, so it's not for their benefit. My partners aren't paying attention to that, so it's not for them. The table.... please.

No, the only benefit that comes from it is that it's an audible reminder to myself to double check the positioning of the jumpers.

This is actually why I do it and do not see myself stopping anytime soon.

Peace

Pointing Is For Me ...
 

I couldn't have said it better myself.

For your sake, I hope you never do. With due regard to those who are stuck under IAABO's influence with no say in their fate, I find the organization to be a meaningless redundancy to other rightfully established organizations that are recognized authorities (namely NFHS and FIBA).

Billy had a post earlier in which he mentioned a group called "IAABO International." That's as self-aggrandizing as the term "World Series." IAABO's footprint is limited to the east coast, Colorado, Ontario, and a handful of overseas U.S. military installations.