Officials protesting anthem–SCHSL speaks
 

All South Carolina High School League officials got this email...

MEMO Wednesday, October 26, 2016

To SCHSL Certified Officials,
I hope that each of you are doing well and enjoying the slight change in temperatures across our beautiful state. Traditionally, officials have been expected to stand for the playing of the National Anthem and address the American flag, also referred to as “Old Glory.” The expectations of the SCHSL and member schools are that SCHSL officials will continue to honor this tradition. However, with the recent social protests that are occurring during the National Anthem throughout our country, we realize there may be officials who may be considering this action during a SCHSL athletic event.
Therefore, if any official plans to make a political or social statement (words or actions) while on an assignment for one of our contests, he/she must contact our office in writing (email) no later than two days before the date of the scheduled contest so I may notify the school of your intent. Once the school has been notified of the planned action(s) to be taken by the official (s), the school will advise our office if they are able to provide adequate security. If the school decides the proposed action(s) by the official(s) risks crew or public safety, the official will be removed from the game as a precaution and we will re-assign the position to another official.
By this action, both First Amendment rights and safety issues are being protected and addressed. If you wish to share feedback on this topic, please do not hesitate to contact the SCHSL office immediately.
“The South Carolina High School League has been in existence for over 100 years…all while displaying a total respect and admiration to this country and the people who make it unique, generous and unbreakable. ALL people make the United States of America a family of many cultures and beliefs. It is the hope of the SCHSL that we continue to support one another while being proud Americans working as One Team. Athletics are meant to bring us together and highlight our strengths, skills and for lack of a better term, our hopes and dreams. We are truly better together,” states SCHSL Commissioner Jerome Singleton.

I wish these organizations would stop throwing the First Amendment around. They obviously do not know what it means, nor do the protestors. 1A protects you from the government putting you in jail for your speech, any other entity can tell you to go pound sand.

I got this email, too, and here are my thoughts:

Schools are not going to pay for extra security to protect an official who kneels or stands during the anthem. Not a chance that will happen, in my opinion.

I don't see this being an issue with any of the partners I work with and 99.9% of the officials statewide.

That being said, I think if an official wants to protest our national anthem, take the jackets back to the dressing room and wait there until the anthem is over. Then no attention is paid to the crew and the concerns about additional security are curtailed.

I see that being the smart way to go about it. We don't kneel or sit at any time after we enter the confines of the court, so it brings way too much unneeded attention for an official to kneel during the national anthem.

Just excuse yourself to "use the restroom" or take the jackets back or just slip out into the hallway.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, but isn't this the point of a protest?

But then people won't know that they're protesting...

I'm not a lawyer, but the SCHSL may be required to adhere to some level of First Amendment protection since it's not a completely private entity.

But, we're independent contractors (at least in form, not always in substance :rolleyes:), so I guess the SCHSL would have the right not to use our services for any reason it chooses.

Not necessarily. The first time Kaepernick "protested" (sat on the bench) nobody even knew he did it at the time, and he did not advertise it after the fact. Fans and the media are the ones who made a big deal about it days after the fact and brought it to the forefront, and then complained about the attention the subject was getting.

The gesture is against standing for the national anthem and honoring the flag for XYZ reason. I see it as less of a protest and more of a refusal to participate in a ritual or symbolic gesture they don't believe in.

Protests are not always designed to be "in your face". Often they are designed to create dialogue. An official refusing to participate in the national anthem proceedings would create dialogue amongst officials, and then branch out from there.

While a protest might not be in your face, the point of a protest is to make your point and draw attention to what you are protesting (moderated). And thr NFL is noticing, if they will admit to it, that its fans are protesting their games on TV by not watching.

The NFL ratings may or may not be due to this issue. I understand sports TV ratings are down in Europe (soccer) as well, and I really doubt that has anything to do with some guy in San Francisco playing the wrong kind of football.

Admin note:
This has so far been a very cordial discussion. If it stays that way, I see no reason to discontinue it. I'm only commenting here as a reminder to keep it professional, friendly, and respectful. This is the kind of discussion that has, historically, turned incandescent (more heat than light) rather quickly, so I thought the reminder was in order.

This is just a bad idea. Suppose I kneel and one team kneels as well but the other team does not. All my calls for the kneeling team are now in question.

We have to look neutral on all issues when officiating. It is just not the right forum for protests, political or religious issues, or any other statement that gets in the way of our job.

If, as a referee, you need a forum for protest, find one outside the court.

(moderated) The national anthem is not even shown on an overwhelming majority of the broadcasts, so I have no idea when there is or isn't a "protest" by players.

I'm not watching the NFL as much because, as much as I love the NFL, I don't have the desire to devote 3 nights, the occasional early Sunday morning from London, and all day Sunday afternoon to watching football anymore. Between Sunday Ticket, NFL Red Zone (my preferred viewing method), and repeated highlight shows on the NFL Network, how and when folks watch the NFL has changed. Plus last year was the NFL's apex ratings year, viewership has to peak at some point.

Although I do understand and am very concerned about the recent uptick of police brutality, treatment of Blacks and Whites by the police--I do not intend to demonstrate a protest by not kneeling or staying in the locker room prior during the playing/singing of the NA. I will put my hand over heart and sing/recite and be proud that I'm living in this fine country. My "protest" will be to get off my duff and make an effort work with local community groups that are trying to liason with these cops and establish civility in our great nation.
As for the NFL games, I don't watch them until the second half anyway--I just don't have the time to put in six hours on a Sunday to devote to football--too much other stuff to do.

I would not want to be on a crew with any official who would do this, for perception's and safety's sake. There are enough people in the gym who already hate us. There is no good reason for an official to draw more undo attention to the crew by pulling a stunt like this, and potentially putting the crew's safety in greater jeopardy–there are some crazy fans out there. Wrong time, wrong place, wrong occupation.

Go to the dressing room if you don't want to be a part of the national anthem.

This.

Who pays the officials and makes up the association? There's your state action. And jail isnt a requirement. And I'm not a fan of the protest,but, seeing Jacksonville punt every time I flip the channel to that game has more to do with me not watching. Bad football. Been a lot of bad boring games...

Recently worked a game with a partner who asked what I would do if he knelt during the Anthem.

What would you do?

Do my job

Let's get a quick primer on the first amendment: it says CONGRESS shall make no law... Now, over time, that has been interpreted (wrongly in my view) to other government entities such as school districts by way of the 14th amendment. Without going into a lot of detail, the gist is this: the state can't punish you for what you say. The top tier of "protected" speech is political speech, but religious, commercial, personal, etc. is equally protected. Some argue, incorrectly, that "hate" speech isn't protected, but it is just like anything else. Also, actions such as flag burning have been protected under the first amendment. This is another bizarre, and incorrectly decided, case on the supreme court.

Even with protected speech, there can be time, place, and manner restrictions that are constitutional. Public schools are public property, but I can't go in there and start putting campaign signs up or start selling t-shirts without the school's permission. Even the kids can't disrupt the classroom just to say what they think. There's no issue in the school regulating things like this.

In general, government employees can be so regulated. A bailiff in a courtroom, for example, is going to get fired if he interrupts a trial telling everyone why they should vote for _____. He's in a public place but he doesn't have complete free speech rights.

We are there to officiate the game -- no more or no less. If you want to protest, go buy a ticket. State and assigning bodies are perfectly able to restrict ANY conduct by the contractors they hire to officiate. We're going to be in for a long night if a partner of mine tries to pull a stunt like this. I can't believe this so-called organization is telling people what they have to do in order to protest. Tell them they can't and if they can't handle that, then they are free to do other things.

Most you could do is address it with your assignor.

I would, as posted above, do my job. I would stand there with my hand over my heart like I've always done. I'm retired military. My dad and step-mom are retired military. My first wife is retired military. I'm paying my respect to the country that I love despite its many maladies and imperfections. What someone else does during the national anthem does not affect how feel and how I conduct myself.

A long night how? You're going to be a crappy ref that night b/c you'll be focusing on what your partner did during the pregame? You're going to give him a lecture after the game?

I am very interested in what this long night will consist of.

Exactly as I would do. And I would still have a beer with my partner after the game.

Even though I am not a retired military, but my father was and is buried in a veteran cemetery. I have for some time now put my hand over my heart as an official for that reason. It really has nothing to do with what I do as a personal citizen when hearing the same anthem. But that is what I would do. I do not think this is worth the fight, even if I might agree with the overall protest on some level. My job is to officiate the game, not make any major statements. I can express my opinion in other ways.

Peace

There is a time and place for everything. In my opinion, using your very visible presence in stripes on the court to make your own (adult) personal political statement before a kids sporting event is the wrong time and place. The game is about the kids and not you. If the kids want to express themselves by taking a knee during the anthem, fine - the game is their event and forum. The game is not about me and my personal political views. I am only there to help the kids have a better game experience.

Work the game...what else is there to do?

NCHSAA: No set protocol for protests - News - The Daily News - Jacksonville, NC

First I've heard of this incident in NC.

I guess one could lie face first on the floor and throw a tantrum or something.

Ignore it. Completely.

That would be effective in drawing attention away from the protester.

DRJ1960

I could have given you a better response but 8:50 is late for me. This is what I know I would say to one of my friends and frankly, if i have something to say im not one to hold my tongue so id probably say something similar to anybody who asked me...

"I'm sure you've heard we are here to do a job, and we are here for kids and this isnt the right time or right place. I agree with that thinking...but kneeling is legal, we live in the greatest country on earth. Try kneeling in Saudi Arabia etc...you would be missing your head and your arm..and not in that order. If you want to kneel then kneel. What i would tell you though is i dont think your helping your cause. you are trying to call attention to a problem in this country. When i see you kneel, it makes me think of how great this country is. When you kneel out there tonight, there probably wont be many people thinking like I do.

But do you know what those people and I have in common? Neither of us are thinking about your issue. I'm thinking how great the country is when you want me to see a problem with it and others are thinking how ungrateful/disrespectful you are and wont hear a thing you have to say. You need people to hear you and be moved to action. There are many many reasonable people in this country who will not give you the time of day because your kneeling. If you want change you need people to listen, you need them to want to act on your issue. Kneeling just doesnt do it. If your goal is to piss alot of people off, well then that will do it. That wont bring about change. Go to a city council meeting, run for election...

If you want to kneel....I think its a mistake but..We are partners, I am walking in with you and im going to walk out with you.....
And your buying...

I agree with what rsl said "If, as a referee, you need a forum for protest, find one outside the court." We must set the example, be professional, remain neutral.

Kinda long, but if/when I hear a partner say what's bolded I usually lol and if I have liquid in my mouth it get's spit out. No one else in that gym is there for the "kids" and neither am I.

This nonsense is so silly but well within anyone's legal rights. It's no organizations position to give either or options here. *IF* a school feels uncomfortable then pay the official off the game. If the fans can't act like humans and adults then it's more a crappy reflection on those individuals inability to refrain from projecting their personal beliefs upon others. There's plenty of crap that I think others do that is either (1) stupid or (2) more stupid, but it's their right to "do you" as long as its within the legal bounds.

All this patriotic this and patriotic that, is usually used for one group to use their freedom to be critical of another group using the same options and choices given anyone else.

On a side note, who cares about the officials (A. Everyone, that's why they are always critiquing us).

Remain neutral in regards to the contest, not political statements.

That's a lot of words for "sit down and know your place, because your problems aren't relevant to the majority."

The whole problem is that dialogue isn't working. As MLK Jr. said, yes, the point is to have a dialogue...but that won't happen until the majority is made so uncomfortable that they have to.

Amen. I don't do this for the kids. That phrase is just political theater for the majority of people that say it as far as I'm concerned.

And, I'm in the camp of everyone else. What else are you supposed to do other than what you're paid to do? Officiate the game, and block the partner when you get home if you want to/are allowed.

A couple things need to be said here. We do not live in Saudi Arabia. I do not care what they do there. If I get to Saudi Arabia and I do a game, I will worry about that when I get there. But I doubt seriously that is ever going to happen in my lifetime. I doubt seriously they are playing many if any sports I officiate, so I will not be in that country for any reason. I live in this country and licensed to only work sports in my state or work college in the adjoining states. And I do not live in a state that has even needed to address this. So this argument about what country would do in an unrelated protest we are in rings hollow.

I am sure that the person that would do this, whether they are a well known athlete (and it might be the athletes you officiate in that game BTW), fan or fellow official, they do not honestly care how disrespectful or ungrateful you or others might think it is. Well maybe they do, but they are trying to make you uncomfortable at the very least. Kind of the point of the situation is to make it clear they are not agreeing with the stance of showing respect for something you or others might value.

Oh, are you going to do something different if the players in your game do some kind of protest since you will show how unhappy you are with your partner that does this?

I have already had players in one of my football games put up a "fist" in the air which has become kind of common in recent weeks in the NFL. There were even several kids across the area that also took a knee as well.

Peace

Matt,

My partners know me well enough that they wouldnt take it that way. My point is simply that I hear people talking about Colin Kaepernick and who else is or isnt going to kneel. I dont hear enough about the issues. The issue is powerful enough on its own. Some of those videos were very powerful and made people think/address it. The protest has taken the focus off the issues. I'd focus more on the videos and the actual issue. That's my view. If anybody wants to kneel that's their choice and their right. As I said earlier, I'll do my job.

I think that was his point. Most of the people bitching about the "protesting" don't even comprehend the issue(s). They just want to, and most likely like to, bitch about everything they disagree with.

I think he said dialogue wasnt working. I tend to agree with that. But in my opinion some of those videos were working. Right wrong or whatever, if you can get public opinion on your side your chances to create change are much better. I think some of the videos were and do sway public opinion. Keep those in the forefront, find others. Those make people uncomfortable. Stay on that. Now i hear who's kneeling and who isnt. I would say stay on message.

Sometimes, movements start with isolated gestures, which may contribute to attaining broader, social change. Videos, kneeling, raised fists, refusing to sit in the back of the bus--they all may contribute to forcing a discussion.

"You know, if one person, just one person, does it, they may think he's really sick and they won't take him.

And if two people do it, in harmony, they may think they're both faggots and
they won't take either of them.

And if three people do it! Can you imagine three people walkin' in, singin' a bar of "Alice's Restaurant" and walkin' out? They may think it's an organization!

And can you imagine fifty people a day? I said FIFTY people a day . . . Walkin' in, singin' a bar of "Alice's Restaurant" and walkin' out? Friends, they may think it's a MOVEMENT, and that's what it is: THE ALICE'S RESTAURANT ANTI-MASSACREE MOVEMENT!"

For The Young'uns ...
 

Have you been under a rock!?! :)

It's been in the news for over a week.

My top supervisor told us that the conference has no stance on the issue in regards to officials.

His personal preference is that we do not do it, not because he believes it right or wrong, but b/c he feels it will create a safety issue. He has also stated that if any official is contemplating any type of gesture, that official needs to inform his crew mates ahead of time.

This would be my primary concern, and I think that's what the SCHSL is most concerned about.

Gotta disagree here a little . The First Amendment applies to the States by incorporation. Framers of the 14th Amendment believed it incorporated the first eight amendments. The ironic thing is that many States argued against the Bill of Rights because they believed the States adequately protected the rights of thee individuals. Free speech principles applied long before the Constitution was ratified. I have spent nearly 37 years in the military. Do I like flag burning? Nope. But the Supreme Court was not wrong in their flag burning decision. There were plenty of forms of protest including tea protests in Boston and Charleston.. There are stories of burning British flags during the revolution. At least one without suggested in 1799 that free speech included all expressions.

I would question whether their policy is a reasonable time place manner restriction or if it is impermissible because it is content based rextriction ( don't think it falls under content neutral because it directly applies to national anthem protests) I wonder what if it would withstand strict scrutiny. I wonder what the compelling governmental interests would be...I don't see how this incites a riot...

By the nature of contracts they can decide to use but really can't control how we officiate games.. The more control they exert the more officials look like employees.

That being said, with every right there is an equally important responsibility. Too often people want to exercise rights at when it is inappropriate. High School Sports isn't the right venue for these types of protests but that me...

The constitutional history is a bit more complex than that. In the post-14th era, arguments were made that certain rights set out in the Bill of Rights were inherently part of the meaning of equal protection under the 14th. As I recall, that often came to the courts in the context of discrimination, making it easier to argue that it was within the scope of the 14th. Over time that grew to essentially all of the rights among the first 8.*

Whether referees could be precluded from protesting during the course of their refereeing responsibilities is an interesting constitutional question that would turn on a variety of details.

Who is making the rule? If it is the independent referee association, it is a very different analysis than if a public school is doing it. (And there are lots of cases about what schools can and cannot do in the context of free speech and expressive action.)

Is the referee an employee of the public school? The state as employer often has broader ability to control behavior in the context of employment than of an employee in off hours.

Heck, if I was teaching Constitutional Law in Law school right now, I'd probably use this scenario in my final exam . . . and I am going to send it as a possible discussion topic to a friend who teaches a high school constitutional law class . . .
_________
*I'm too lazy to look it up, but I have a vague recollection that there are actually a couple of rights *not* incorporated. I believe grand jury is one.