The Official Forum - Revised Rule 4-42-5a

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 991962)

This is not, according to 6-4-5, correct. Though the word "legally" has been removed from 4-42-5a, all the provisions stated in 6-4-5 are still valid:
"The opportunity to make an AP throw-in is lost if the throw-in team violates. If either team fouls during an AP throw-in, it does not cause the throw-in team to lose the possession arrow. If the defensive team commits a violation during the throw-in, the possession arrow is not switched.

Therefore, the removal of the word "legally" in 4-42-5a is a moot point because of what it says in 6-4-5. Right?

The word legally is extremely important.

Rule 6-4-4....the direction of the possession arrow is reversed immediately after an alternating-possession throw in ends. An alternating-possession throw in ends when the throw in ends as in 4-42-5

Rule 4-42-5...The throw in ends when
a. The passed ball touches or is touched by another player

Rule 6-4-5 ......if the defensive team commits a violation during the throw in, the possession arrow is not changed not switched

6-4-4 is clear, the arrow is switched according to 4-42-5, the word legally has been removed, therefore, when the ball is touched legally, or illegally, the throw in has ended, therefore the arrow switches at that time. The kicked ball isn't part of the throw in, as the throw in ended when it was touched inbounds. The kick is a touch which ended the throw in, it just happens to be that that touch is illegal. Team A will get a throw in for the illegal act of the kick, but since the throw in was touched, the throw in ends and the arrow should be switched.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 991970)

Rule 6-4-4....the direction of the possession arrow is reversed immediately after an alternating-possession throw in ends. An alternating-possession throw in ends when the throw in ends as in 4-42-5

Rule 6-4-5 ......if the defensive team commits a violation during the throw in, the possession arrow is not changed not switched

Rule 4-42-5...The throw in ends when
a. The passed ball touches or is touched by another player

6-4-4 is clear, the arrow is switched according to 4-42-5, the word legally has been removed, therefore, when the ball is touched legally, or illegally, the throw in has ended, therefore the arrow switches at that time. The kicked ball isn't part of the throw in as the throw in ended when it was touched inbounds. The kick is a touch which ended the throw in, it just happens to be that that touch is illegal. Team A will get a throw in for the illegal act of the kick, but since the throw in was touched, the throw in ends and the arrow should be switched.

Throw in starts when the ball is at the disposal of a player entitled to it---and ends when it touches or is touched by another player inbounds. The kick didn't happen during the throw in, it happened after.

Whereas I appreciate your well-reasoned, logical argument, and even agree with it in principle, in view of the recently released interpretation Situation 11, and since the training/teaching preseason has already begun, it looks like we're going with the interp and with 6-4-5. Arrow doesn't change when defense violates, only when throw-in team does so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freddy (Post 991971)

No, I get it. It's another self imposed mess by the NFHS

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 991972)

It's another self imposed mess by the NFHS

Further confusion by the NFHS

The Rules by Topic book on page 103 removed legally from the verbiage, but kept the Rationale that told us why the word legally was added to the definition!
It seems clear that by referencing 6-4-5 in the case book play, that the NFHS considers the last sentence of 6-4-5 to be controlling. I know that reference was not there in the 2014-15 case book play, but I don't have the 2015-16 case book play to see if it was added this year or last.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 991972)

No, I get it. It's another self imposed mess by the NFHS

I think for now we have to say, while the kick ends the throw in, it is also "during" it. The interp supports that position. If the throwin pass is kicked don't change the arrow.