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-   -   A Hypervigilant or Safety Conscious Ref? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/101614-hypervigilant-safety-conscious-ref.html)

BryanV21 Mon Sep 12, 2016 08:56am

Isn't there a decent chance of the MG falling on the floor, and becoming a bit of an obstacle? Plus, doesn't part of the equipment rule say about properly wearing equipment (in this case the MG)?

Kansas Ref Mon Sep 12, 2016 10:37am

Yes there is BV21, so I do believe that I was justified in my action.

jpgc99 Mon Sep 12, 2016 11:36am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref (Post 990704)
Yes there is BV21, so I do believe that I was justified in my action.

So why did you ask us?

Raymond Mon Sep 12, 2016 01:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanV21 (Post 990695)
Isn't there a decent chance of the MG falling on the floor, and becoming a bit of an obstacle? Plus, doesn't part of the equipment rule say about properly wearing equipment (in this case the MG)?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref (Post 990704)
Yes there is BV21, so I do believe that I was justified in my action.

So when he drops it, "accidentally" step on it. Problem solved.

BigCat Mon Sep 12, 2016 02:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref (Post 990704)
Yes there is BV21, so I do believe that I was justified in my action.



he's probably been allowed to wear it out like that most of the time. him doing it again after you telling him to keep it in is probably not a dig at you as much as it is a habit of his. more like a reflex. if i felt compelled to do something id just send him out of the game--like jewelry etc. A T for a mouth guard doesn't help your game.

OKREF Mon Sep 12, 2016 02:29pm

The moral of this story is.....Never, Never, Ever, call a men’s wreck league benefit fundraiser tourney

crosscountry55 Mon Sep 12, 2016 09:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCat (Post 990728)
if i felt compelled to do something id just send him out of the game--like jewelry etc. A T for a mouth guard doesn't help your game.

This.

Kansas Ref Tue Sep 13, 2016 09:45am

Quote:

Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 990729)
The moral of this story is.....Never, Never, Ever, call a men’s wreck league benefit fundraiser tourney

*well I did work the game at the request of a referee colleague who needed help; moreover, the $30 per game fee helped to persuade me.

Kansas Ref Tue Sep 13, 2016 09:46am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 990723)
So when he drops it, "accidentally" step on it. Problem solved.

*OK, BNR interesting solution.

Kansas Ref Tue Sep 13, 2016 09:48am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jpgc99 (Post 990711)
So why did you ask us?

*looking for the pros and cons of my action from knowledgeable, experienced, and intelligent officials--hey I don't exist in a vacuum OK.

JetMetFan Thu Sep 15, 2016 09:52am

Since it's a safety item I'm not going to tell a player "wear it properly or take it out." I'll tell them wear it properly or they can't play (NF 3-7). If they choose to take it out that's on them. If we tell them in any way they have to take it out and they get hurt, that opens us up to legal issues.

Kansas Ref Thu Sep 15, 2016 04:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetMetFan (Post 990843)
Since it's a safety item I'm not going to tell a player "wear it properly or take it out." I'll tell them wear it properly or they can't play (NF 3-7). If they choose to take it out that's on them. If we tell them in any way they have to take it out and they get hurt, that opens us up to legal issues.

*Interesting observation of a possible "legal issue" that could arise here. Our association recently had a speaker from NASO give us a seminar regarding "legal aspects, pitfalls, and implications of officiating". Of the key points she mentioned were: 1) "liable negligence" (example she gave was: B1 gets pushed hard in lower back on rebound and you are in L and do not call a foul--B1 gets back injury and parents are raising a big stink after they saw game video); 2) "un-intentional injury" (example she gave was 'a well-meaning official helping a player with a sprained ankle up off the gym floor and said player slips from your grasp and tears the acl". I can see how the above cited issue of MG could be in-play here, now that you mention 'legal' aspects.

ODog Fri Sep 16, 2016 11:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref (Post 990852)
Of the key points she mentioned were: 1) "liable negligence" (example she gave was: B1 gets pushed hard in lower back on rebound and you are in L and do not call a foul--B1 gets back injury and parents are raising a big stink after they saw game video)

I'm interested to hear more about this. Was her conclusion that the official was a.) liable, and/or b.) negligent?!

Whether you call a foul or not, B1 is injured on the play. A non-whistle didn't cause it, and a whistle won't prevent it. The classic "someone's gonna get hurt out there" non-logic.

I know we all agree on this, just wanted to hear what the NASO rep's take was on her own scenario.

Mregor Sat Sep 17, 2016 11:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref (Post 990523)
Question I have is: was I being hypervigilant?

Yes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref (Post 990523)
Question I have is: Was I protecting the safety of other players [and quite possibly also of PS]?

No.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref (Post 990523)
Question I have is: And/or would any of you’all have done a similar officiating action?

Absolutley not.

Kansas Ref Sun Sep 18, 2016 06:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ODog (Post 990891)
I'm interested to hear more about this. Was her conclusion that the official was a.) liable, and/or b.) negligent?!

Whether you call a foul or not, B1 is injured on the play. A non-whistle didn't cause it, and a whistle won't prevent it. The classic "someone's gonna get hurt out there" non-logic.

I know we all agree on this, just wanted to hear what the NASO rep's take was on her own scenario.

*the seminar speaker cited a case from a HS game in Florida----the player was injured due to push in back that "everyone saw" and the official did not either consider it/call it a foul--they [the parents] all saw game video and blamed the official for not "protecting/penalizing" player. The main take home from this seminar was that it made me seriously consider taking out their 'liability insurance"- that Naso offers.


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