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-   -   Fed up with association/assignor... (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/101289-fed-up-association-assignor.html)

loners4me Wed Apr 27, 2016 01:28pm

Fed up with association/assignor...
 
Moved to new area 5 years ago. Joined association (mandatory per assignor). Problem is myself and other officials are frustrated with several factors.

1. No trasparency.
2. No ranking system
3. No mentoring program
4. Assignor controls everything within 100 miles. If you dont attend his camp....no games period.

Ill get assigned a weak varsity girls game on friday night and a double header middle school game sat....When I say...no MS...Im told take em all or nothing.

Im certified, 10 years experience, great coaches ratings and my games are going backwards.....

Assignor is completely unapproachable and is rude and will interupt.

Im mostly just venting, but have given thought to hanging it up in my 30s with 10 years exp.

I see no future, dont know where I stand and cant get a straight answer.

Out of town guys get the big games and in return assignor and his buddies get big games in neighboring towns.

JRutledge Wed Apr 27, 2016 02:48pm

All I would say is, why do you expect those things you listed? Someone is supposed to tell you where you rank?

The only thing is the 100 mile radius part I would have a problem with, but hey, if you want to work go to his camp. Why is that a problem? You cannot put some of your time into your "business?"

Every system is going to be different, but all those things apply to where I am as example except for the one assignor for such a large area.

Peace

SC Official Wed Apr 27, 2016 05:07pm

Be careful what you wish for. Our "ranking system" in South Carolina is a mess.

As for the other stuff, politics is as much a part of officiating as any other profession. Learn to live with it.

Raymond Wed Apr 27, 2016 05:15pm

I've experienced one through three and we voted the commissioner out. The political s*** storm is still reverberating 6 years later.

My skills and good fortune allowed me to Rise Above The Fray

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk

Camron Rust Wed Apr 27, 2016 05:20pm

Like Jeff said, why do you expect those things? You're an independent contractor.

Unless the association hires the assignor and has certain criteria for the job, the assignor doesn't have any obligation to tell you how he operates or why he does or does not hire a certain person. He may even be hired by the schools and is only responsible to them.

People that complain about transparency are often complaining about their schedule...thinking they're better than the games they're getting. More times than not, they're wrong. Even if everything were 100% transparent, those officials would still get the same schedule and they'd be more disgruntled. The only thing that would change is that the level of whining.

You want to be ranked? Be ready to be unhappy with your rank. 80% of officials think they are in the top half of the organization. A lot of them are wrong.

And not all organizations have the charter to provide mentoring/training. It might be nice but you can ask an official you respect to do that for you. You don't need an organization to get better.

Just control what you can control....get better and better and don't piss people off and eventually the better games will come. If you piss people off, you can only expect to be limited. It sounds like you may have done some of that already (based on what you've said) so you might have a hole to dig yourself out of. Don't expect that to happen overnight. I've seen it happen...assignors don't want to deal with people that are difficult....they want people that make their job easy, both on the court and off the court.

Dad Wed Apr 27, 2016 05:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 986819)
Like Jeff said, why do you expect those things? You're an independent contractor.

Unless the association hires the assignor and has certain criteria for the job, the assignor doesn't have any obligation to tell you how he operates or why he does or does not hire a certain person. He may even be hired by the schools and is only responsible to them.

People that complain about transparency are often complaining about their schedule...thinking they're better than the games they're getting. More times than not, they're wrong. Even if everything were 100% transparent, those officials would still get the same schedule and they'd be more disgruntled. The only thing that would change is that the level of whining.

You want to be ranked? Be read to be unhappy with your rank. 80% of officials think they are in the top half of the organization. A lot of them are wrong.

And not all organizations have the charter to provide mentoring/training. It might be nice but you can ask an official you respect to do that for you. You don't need an organization to get better.

Just control what you can control....get better and better and don't piss people off and eventually the better games will come. If you piss people off, you can only expect to be limited. It sounds like you may have done some of that already (based on what you've said) so you might have a hole to dig yourself out of. Don't expect that to happen overnight. I've seen it happen...assignors don't want to deal with people that are difficult....they want people that make their job easy, both on the court and off the court.

Should take this to heart. Especially the last paragraph.

jpgc99 Wed Apr 27, 2016 06:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by loners4me (Post 986803)
Im certified, 10 years experience, great coaches ratings and my games are going backwards.....

Perhaps those things are not enough. (And yes, I don't think those things are enough)

BlueDevilRef Wed Apr 27, 2016 07:37pm

Only thing I say is it can be difficult if there is little transparency on a 1:1 level bw official and assignor. Only thing I want is honesty about what it takes to get to next level. However brutal that truth might be.

Otherwise, officiating is very political and that is sad and frustrating but it has been part of it long before me and will be long after I'm done so I try to only focus on myself.

deecee Wed Apr 27, 2016 07:42pm

If the assignor suggests certain things then do them. If you still don't see any movement then ask. As "good" as I may think I am if an assignor, or an official that works a level that I aspire to reach, recommends something I take it to heart.

My toughest problem so far has been my weight. I have to lost 20-30 lb's by next season if I have any hope of moving beyond junior college. If I don't progress I have no one to blame but myself. After all this was the one thing I have been instructed to attend to.

kgeorge0263 Wed Apr 27, 2016 07:48pm

Politics at every level
 
In response to your situation, I am sure other officials feel that they may not be getting games that they deserve and feel that the "ol' boys network" is holding them back. Although this may be the case, we as officials also think that we are better than we may be. You can only control your attitude, call selection, being a good partner, not talk poorly about your partners, coaches, assigner or administrators, and give 100% effort every game.

There are other opportunities if you feel that you are hitting a ceiling (attempting men's or women's college basketball), but those avocations also have politics, requires financial investment, includes more travel & scrutiny, and you also have situations you may disagree with how assigners work as well as where you see partners get games that you feel you should've had.

I would find a good mentor that can give you a true evaluation of your call selection, mechanics, communication with partners, players and coaches, your game management and then watch some tape.

Being frustrated and blaming others does not help our officiating brother/sisterhood. There are several article indicating that officials are quitting due to violence, poor fan behavior, and many other reasons (social media & media scrutiny), but I hope for people that do have the skill set continue to referee and give back to the game and players.

I'll get off my soapbox now...

KG

SC Official Wed Apr 27, 2016 08:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by kgeorge0263 (Post 986828)
but I hope for people that do have the skill set continue to referee and give back to the game and players.

I have never refereed for the game or the players and never will.

deecee Wed Apr 27, 2016 08:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by sc official (Post 986830)
i have never refereed for the game or the players and never will.

+1

JRutledge Wed Apr 27, 2016 08:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 986830)
I have never refereed for the game or the players and never will.

I think we would say that because it was the PC thing to do. Then you realize that you do not give a damn about the players or even the "game" as people would like to suggest. You have to find a reason to leave the house and enjoy this avocation or it is not going to be fun and you will eventually stop.

Peace

BryanV21 Wed Apr 27, 2016 09:54pm

One assignor for a hundred mile radius? Sounds to me that there aren't too many games to go around. And there's a chance that they already have a good crop of officials for the "higher level" varsity games around there.

BTW, I almost moved to another state and asked about what would happen as an official, seeing as how I'd finally worked my way into varsity. And I was told that I'd basically have to start at the bottom.

So your 10 years of experience may get your foot in the door, but you can't lean on that to say you deserve better. Just like when it comes to a new job. Your prior experience helped you get that job, but getting promoted or getting a raise is all about what you do for them... not what you did for somebody else.

So take all the games you can get. Use them to improve (ten years is not a lot), and prove to that assignor that you can do better. Eventually your time will come.

Dad Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:19am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 986830)
I have never refereed for the game or the players and never will.

You literally have.

Dad Thu Apr 28, 2016 12:21am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BryanV21 (Post 986833)
One assignor for a hundred mile radius? Sounds to me that there aren't too many games to go around. And there's a chance that they already have a good crop of officials for the "higher level" varsity games around there.

BTW, I almost moved to another state and asked about what would happen as an official, seeing as how I'd finally worked my way into varsity. And I was told that I'd basically have to start at the bottom.

So your 10 years of experience may get your foot in the door, but you can't lean on that to say you deserve better. Just like when it comes to a new job. Your prior experience helped you get that job, but getting promoted or getting a raise is all about what you do for them... not what you did for somebody else.

So take all the games you can get. Use them to improve (ten years is not a lot), and prove to that assignor that you can do better. Eventually your time will come.

Ten years is a lot of time. You can still be terrible after ten years, but it's still a large chunk of time.

JRutledge Thu Apr 28, 2016 08:48am

Some officials "get it." Others do not get it at all. Ten years does not mean you were good enough to get to a certain level. Heck I know officials that were never good and why they are only working a certain level or get to where they personally wanted to go, like working boys varsity as example.

Peace

Rich Thu Apr 28, 2016 08:56am

Back when I started, people expected to put in 5 or so years at the subvarsity level.

Now people in their first year think they're good enough and wonder what assigners have against them.

As a varsity assigner, there are 25+ year officials I simply WILL NOT USE. I have only had one confront me about it, and it was a very unpleasant experience for me. Didn't change anything, though, as it didn't change the fact that he couldn't run the floor in a 3-person game, even.

Number of years and what the coaches think mean very little to me. My experience seeing coaches ratings (as an assigner) tells me that they have little idea what makes a good official.

RefCT Thu Apr 28, 2016 09:35am

Quote:

Assignor is completely unapproachable and is rude and will interupt.
This raised my red flag and I suggest you look at how you are presenting the message.

As a manager, when someone is unapproachable, it usually means I have to change the way I am communicating my message. People receive and react to confrontation (and ways it is presented) in different ways. If he was completely unapproachable, he wouldn't be where he is. I suggest doing research to figure out how to best communicate with his personality type and then changing your message to match how he will best receive what you are trying to communicate/ask.

Adam Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:45am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad (Post 986835)
You literally have.

Not me. I ref because it's something I enjoy. Period.

I don't do it for the kids, and I don't do it "for the game."

Even when I did Special Olympics, it was because I found it fun.

so cal lurker Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:00am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 986845)
Not me. I ref because it's something I enjoy. Period.

I don't do it for the kids, and I don't do it "for the game."

Even when I did Special Olympics, it was because I found it fun.

I'm always perplexed that many referees have to argue about why people should ref. (Not pointing at you.) Some do it because they love the game and its a way to stay active in it. Some do it because they see it a way to work with kids and help kids. Some want to "give back" to the game. Some do it just because it's fun. Some do it as a less painful way to get exercise. Some do it to have an excuse to get out of the house. Some do it for money. And most, I suspect, do it for some combination of those reasons (and perhaps others I missed).

I don't think it matters a whit what a refs personal motivation is. What matters is the effort and dedication the person brings to doing it well and being a good partner.

(Though I do think that anyone who is not at least partially motivated by "it's fun" is unlikely to stay doing it for very long -- too many downsides to reffing at any level in any sport if it isn't fun.)

Camron Rust Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:03am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RefCT (Post 986841)
This raised my red flag and I suggest you look at how you are presenting the message.

As a manager, when someone is unapproachable, it usually means I have to change the way I am communicating my message. People receive and react to confrontation (and ways it is presented) in different ways. If he was completely unapproachable, he wouldn't be where he is. I suggest doing research to figure out how to best communicate with his personality type and then changing your message to match how he will best receive what you are trying to communicate/ask.

Exactly.

Many people are unapproachable when you go at them the wrong way.

WhistlesAndStripes Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:08am

Tough crowd here!!
 
As an official, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect an assignor to let you know where you stand. I think that that's what the OP is asking for. Granted, how you go about trying to get that information is important, but it's not an unreasonable expectation.

Different associations have different ways of doing things, different ways of training, and different ways of mentoring. It's important to figure out how the association/assignor do things and adapt to it.

But some responsibility falls on the assignor as well. If an official approaches the assignor asking what he needs to do to improve his schedule, I don't think that's too much to ask. Granted, it may be hard for the official to hear the brutal truth, but if someone really wants to move up, they'll take it to heart and do what's asked.

JRutledge Thu Apr 28, 2016 11:35am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes (Post 986848)
As an official, I don't think it's unreasonable to expect an assignor to let you know where you stand. I think that that's what the OP is asking for. Granted, how you go about trying to get that information is important, but it's not an unreasonable expectation.

There is a difference in telling you where you stand and ranking you specifically up against someone else or the group. And if they tell you what they think about you, will you accept the information?

We have a rating system that is statewide that we know what our percentile numbers are listed at. So if you are in the 90 percentile, you are as high as you can go in theory in your ratings. There are people in my state that complain they are not higher and often try to compare themselves against others that they feel they are "better" than. So if they are "better," then they think they should get "better" games an opportunities. Usually this is just about acceptance, not whether it is reality or not.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes (Post 986848)
But some responsibility falls on the assignor as well. If an official approaches the assignor asking what he needs to do to improve his schedule, I don't think that's too much to ask. Granted, it may be hard for the official to hear the brutal truth, but if someone really wants to move up, they'll take it to heart and do what's asked.

I know that sounds wonderful, but if you go to a job interview and the company or interviewer tells you that they have 50 candidates and we will call you if you get a second interview or if we hire you, then they don't call or hire you, what is that telling you? That means that they did not pick you over others that were available for the position. They are not going to come back and tell you why they choose other people. At most they might send you a letter thanking you for your time, but they are not going to get into the details. Why as officials do we expect more than any other aspect of life? Also the assignor is telling you what they think of you really by giving you the assignments. So if you want to work varsity and you are only getting JV games, that is your answer.

Peace

Freddy Thu Apr 28, 2016 02:15pm

A Bold yet Valid Step
 
To the original poster:
PM me and give me a link to some game video of you in action. As a neutral observer I will do you the favor of verifying whether there are things you either do or do not do which influence your assigner's opinion of you.

SC Official Thu Apr 28, 2016 04:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad (Post 986835)
You literally have.

I don't need you to tell me the reasons I referee. I referee because I love to referee. I don't do it "for the kids" or "to give back to the game." When I start not liking it, I'll quit. And if the kids or the game suffer, not my problem.

JRutledge Thu Apr 28, 2016 04:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 986861)
I don't need you to tell me the reasons I referee. I referee because I love to referee. I don't do it "for the kids" or "to give back to the game." When I start not liking it, I'll quit. And if the kids or the game suffer, not my problem.

We all do this for different reasons and I think more officials do it for the reasons you just stated.

How could you "do it for the kids" when you in many cases never see them again? I have been doing this 20 years and most kids are long gone that I once officiated. I have to have something else draw me or I am going to not enjoy myself.

Peace

IncorrectCall Mon May 02, 2016 10:26am

There are many that have years of experience and claim to have "35 years", but in reality have "1 year, 35 times". Know where you stand and have a realistic view of yourself. The rest will come.

Dad Mon May 02, 2016 11:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 986845)
Not me. I ref because it's something I enjoy. Period.

I don't do it for the kids, and I don't do it "for the game."

Even when I did Special Olympics, it was because I found it fun.

I'm going to assume, since you're a magician, you didn't actually fall for this. You were trying to prevent the inevitable, SC was forced to bite, haha.

JetMetFan Thu May 05, 2016 12:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 986839)
Back when I started, people expected to put in 5 or so years at the subvarsity level.

Now people in their first year think they're good enough and wonder what assigners have against them.

As a varsity assigner, there are 25+ year officials I simply WILL NOT USE. I have only had one confront me about it, and it was a very unpleasant experience for me. Didn't change anything, though, as it didn't change the fact that he couldn't run the floor in a 3-person game, even.

Number of years and what the coaches think mean very little to me. My experience seeing coaches ratings (as an assigner) tells me that they have little idea what makes a good official.

Amen.

Not to knock the ability of the official in the OP but when I look back now at what I was ten years after I became IAABO certified I realize I didn't know crap. I'm 25 years on the HS side and only in the past 5-6 do I feel as though I really started to "get it." That coincided with a sharp increase in the quantity - and quality - of games I receive.

The advice to look inside first as opposed to outside is spot on. I was always a rule book guy (contrary to some of my goofs here [emoji5]) but now I do more. A couple of assignors either suggested or flat out said I needed to lose weight and I've dropped - and kept off - 45+ lbs. since 2013. I study the game more thanks to clips here and watching games at all levels as more of an official instead of a fan. I do not take it for granted that any of my assignors, be they NCAAW or HS, will give me games. My goal is to make it difficult for them *not* to give me games. Once you do that, the level you work and how often you work take care of themselves. Assignors will always default to people who they trust because no one likes agita.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

Camron Rust Thu May 05, 2016 04:31pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JetMetFan (Post 987150)
Amen.

Not to knock the ability of the official in the OP but when I look back now at what I was ten years after I became IAABO certified I realize I didn't know crap. I'm 25 years on the HS side and only in the past 5-6 do I feel as though I really started to "get it." That coincided with a sharp increase in the quantity - and quality - of games I receive.

The advice to look inside first as opposed to outside is spot on. I was always a rule book guy (contrary to some of my goofs here [emoji5]) but now I do more. A couple of assignors either suggested or flat out said I needed to lose weight and I've dropped - and kept off - 45+ lbs. since 2013. I study the game more thanks to clips here and watching games at all levels as more of an official instead of a fan. I do not take it for granted that any of my assignors, be they NCAAW or HS, will give me games. My goal is to make it difficult for them *not* to give me games. Once you do that, the level you work and how often you work take care of themselves. Assignors will always default to people who they trust because no one likes agita.

Sent from my SM-G900P using Tapatalk

Likewise....I thought I knew something at a time long ago. It was only after I learned a lot more that I realized what I didn't know. I'm sure I still have things to learn but now I know that with clarity. It took me several years to get my first regular season girls varsity game (7 IIRC), then a few more to get some at the top classification (boys 4A at the time), but only a few and not the good games. In my 15th year, I finally got a state tournament assignment at the lower levels. Now, 23 years in, I've done quite well, but it didn't come overnight.

Texas Aggie Thu May 05, 2016 10:26pm

While I agree that some expect it to happen more quickly than it should, you shouldn't have to wait 7 years to get a varsity game if you have even moderate ability. I wouldn't have stuck around that long for my first COLLEGE game, much less HS varsity. But I put in the work -- 100+ game years from year 2-6 or so and college camps starting after my second year. I went to those camps with my ears open and my mouth shut. I realize some younger officials don't do this or don't do enough of this.

With that said, experienced officials are doing a huge disservice to their younger brethren (ladies included) by taking a "our turn" view and all but shutting them out of quality assignments. I'm not talking about deep playoff rounds but regular season and early playoff games that these guys probably won't ever work because they'll quit before given the chance. You, Cameron, as a quality 23 year guy may be a guy who can now work any game your state assigns, you didn't get there by continuously working JV and lower level games. You had to be thrown in the fire at some point.

Every organization worth its salt should have a growth or expectations plan. If gives officials a view of how things, on average, should go and what they need to do to progress within the plan. It won't be absolute and there won't be any guarantees, but if they don't see ANYONE getting the benefit of that person following the plan, you might as well not bother.

Welpe Fri May 06, 2016 12:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 986850)
I know that sounds wonderful, but if you go to a job interview and the company or interviewer tells you that they have 50 candidates and we will call you if you get a second interview or if we hire you, then they don't call or hire you, what is that telling you?

That's not the relationship that an official has with an assigner they've already worked games for. I do expect to be able to have a similar conversation about my abilities, workload and what I can do to improve with my boss at work. That is not unlike the conversation the OP wishes to have with their assigner.

Freddy Fri May 06, 2016 07:49am

Missing Component
 
From most who complain about not getting better games or rising to a higher level there exists a telling hesitancy to offer video to establish the allegation that the assigner isn't being fair to them personally. Most times there is a reason. And it's detectable by objective observation or video critique and in many, though not all, cases correctable, but those who prove the injustice seem quite few.
Do I have a point here?

Rich Fri May 06, 2016 08:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie (Post 987180)
While I agree that some expect it to happen more quickly than it should, you shouldn't have to wait 7 years to get a varsity game if you have even moderate ability. I wouldn't have stuck around that long for my first COLLEGE game, much less HS varsity. But I put in the work -- 100+ game years from year 2-6 or so and college camps starting after my second year. I went to those camps with my ears open and my mouth shut. I realize some younger officials don't do this or don't do enough of this.

I'm curious to how old you are and when you got started.

Today I think 7 years is a long time. When I started it wasn't unusual and people weren't ready to throw in the towel just because they hadn't advanced to that level in 5-7 years. We worked in 2-person crews and there just weren't a ton of varsity slots available and, for the most part, those who held them were veterans who deserved them.

I'm not ashamed to say that I worked my first varsity game in year 7. I was a college student for 2 years, took 3 years off where I worked full time in another geography (and started again working the lowest level stuff -- and only sporadically), and then went back to college for 2 years and rejoined the same association. Not a lot of schools (rural area) and those who did the varsity games were established people, not temporary residents, like me.

It was year 9 before I worked a full varsity schedule, while I was in grad school in yet another geography.

After that I moved 4 more times in 6 years, concentrating on my day job and moving my career forward. I worked varsity schedules in those locations, but it's not like I established a foothold anywhere -- I worked one year in each of two locations, and then 3 years in another, before moving to my current home 14 years ago. Here we go out and get our own games and I worked about 20 varsity games my first season and haven't looked back, working at least 50-60 varsity dates annually.

It's not surprising to me that it took me 27 years in total to work my first state tournament. Next year is year 30 for me, but where I live they consider me a 15-year official.

JRutledge Fri May 06, 2016 09:44am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 987189)
That's not the relationship that an official has with an assigner they've already worked games for. I do expect to be able to have a similar conversation about my abilities, workload and what I can do to improve with my boss at work. That is not unlike the conversation the OP wishes to have with their assigner.

But if you are working with someone before, they may or may not tell you why you are getting certain games in detail as opposed to the 100 other officials they have assigned games to. Again this might be area specific, but I know assignors that do not give detailed answers to those kinds of questions. For one they do not want to kill their motivation to work for them on some level and secondly they are not going to tell them, "You are not good enough to work because....." Again, you are not the only one they assign. You should figure out on some level why you are not at the top or working what you are working. My main point you can ask all you like, but they do not and often will not tell you the reason you are looking for. If you do not like what you are getting, then do not accept the games. You are an independent contractor.

But once again, this might be very area specific. Where I live if one guy does not like me, I have many others to turn to for games. Or I suck it up and pay my dues to get to where I want to be with that assignor.

Peace

JRutledge Fri May 06, 2016 09:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie (Post 987180)
While I agree that some expect it to happen more quickly than it should, you shouldn't have to wait 7 years to get a varsity game if you have even moderate ability. I wouldn't have stuck around that long for my first COLLEGE game, much less HS varsity. But I put in the work -- 100+ game years from year 2-6 or so and college camps starting after my second year. I went to those camps with my ears open and my mouth shut. I realize some younger officials don't do this or don't do enough of this.

I am not sure I agree with that overall. It would depend on the staff you are working with or competing against. If no one has retired or died, you very much might not be getting those opportunities. This could be area specific as well, but where I am you might not get a varsity boys game in that time even if you are moderately decent in your ability. Those are harder assignments to get and where most officials I know want to work. Girls basketball honestly they will give those to someone with a pulse much of the time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie (Post 987180)
With that said, experienced officials are doing a huge disservice to their younger brethren (ladies included) by taking a "our turn" view and all but shutting them out of quality assignments. I'm not talking about deep playoff rounds but regular season and early playoff games that these guys probably won't ever work because they'll quit before given the chance. You, Cameron, as a quality 23 year guy may be a guy who can now work any game your state assigns, you didn't get there by continuously working JV and lower level games. You had to be thrown in the fire at some point.

I think it is much more about ability than anything. I do not subscribe to the "waiting your turn" position. I think you have to at the very least have the ability to handle the level. The term I heard best is "We are looking for Referees not U2s." If you can display that you can handle the situations in some of the most difficult circumstances, you will get those opportunities in my experience. But sometimes that takes time because working a prelim game or a freshman game is very different than working a varsity game that the outcome determines the conference. Coaches are not as forgiving for mistakes at the varsity level as they might be at the freshman level. And what are assignors trying to do ultimately? Keep their jobs. So they are not going to just take a risk on someone to handle themselves over someone that has proven their mettle.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie (Post 987180)
Every organization worth its salt should have a growth or expectations plan. If gives officials a view of how things, on average, should go and what they need to do to progress within the plan. It won't be absolute and there won't be any guarantees, but if they don't see ANYONE getting the benefit of that person following the plan, you might as well not bother.

At least here organizations do not assign varsity games. Our job is only to train you and lead you to the right people. It is ultimately up to you do what the assignors want and accept what they give you or decide what you do not want to work. Some organizations do a better job, but ultimately it is on you as an official to take the knowledge and run with it.

Peace

Dad Fri May 06, 2016 12:09pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie (Post 987180)
While I agree that some expect it to happen more quickly than it should, you shouldn't have to wait 7 years to get a varsity game if you have even moderate ability. I wouldn't have stuck around that long for my first COLLEGE game, much less HS varsity. But I put in the work -- 100+ game years from year 2-6 or so and college camps starting after my second year. I went to those camps with my ears open and my mouth shut. I realize some younger officials don't do this or don't do enough of this.

With that said, experienced officials are doing a huge disservice to their younger brethren (ladies included) by taking a "our turn" view and all but shutting them out of quality assignments. I'm not talking about deep playoff rounds but regular season and early playoff games that these guys probably won't ever work because they'll quit before given the chance. You, Cameron, as a quality 23 year guy may be a guy who can now work any game your state assigns, you didn't get there by continuously working JV and lower level games. You had to be thrown in the fire at some point.

Every organization worth its salt should have a growth or expectations plan. If gives officials a view of how things, on average, should go and what they need to do to progress within the plan. It won't be absolute and there won't be any guarantees, but if they don't see ANYONE getting the benefit of that person following the plan, you might as well not bother.

Putting a time limit on when officials should or should not do certain games is a recipe for disaster. The assigner would be fired in a nano-second for someone more competent, at least in a decent area. I'm aware there are horrible, even worthless, assigners out there, but I've yet to meet one so I assume they are rare. Just because your ears are open doesn't mean your retaining the good information and dumping the bad. I also, from my very first game, have never kept my mouth shut. Social skills play a massive role, but questioning clinicians, assigners, vets, fellow officials, etc, is a major part of how I grew so fast. As far as how many games you've worked, I can learn more in one game then others can in 100. Officials improvement and better games is far more reliant on them then they realize, especially the officials who complain why they aren't doing a, b, and c games. This mind-set is backwards and is probably an annoyance to almost any assigner.

I've never understood the concept of throwing an official into the fire. Either you're ready or you're not and I'm not going to risk a game blowing up in my face for assigning an official who thinks they're ready because on paper they've been around forever and done a lot of games. I don't care if you've been around for three years or twenty, some are ready and some aren't. Some officials mature after a few years and are ready for NCAA games and some won't be ready after thirty years.

While I think it's important for associations to have plans to improve officials, I entirely disagree with your final paragraph. I didn't care for my associations plan and just did my own. This shouldn't be some awkward parenting system and people can either learn to succeed or not. Who should be worth their salt is an official, not the association. Taking it backwards is why the vast majority of officials just aren't any good. If I had to rely on someone else' program I would never have started officiating in the first place. There are ways to boost your career forward, and blaming everyone else isn't it. In fact, it's the very reason people never move or start to move in the wrong direction.

AremRed Sat May 07, 2016 08:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Texas Aggie (Post 987180)
I wouldn't have stuck around that long for my first COLLEGE game, much less HS varsity.

So you work college but haven't worked a Varsity HS game yet?

SC Official Sat May 07, 2016 09:39am

Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 987267)
So you work college but haven't worked a Varsity HS game yet?

So what? It's not uncommon at all, especially in states like mine where you pretty much can't get a single varsity game until your fifth year.

Refhoop Sat May 07, 2016 10:01am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 986830)
I have never refereed for the game or the players and never will.

Then why do you do it?

Refhoop Sat May 07, 2016 10:02am

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee (Post 986831)
+1

?

AremRed Sat May 07, 2016 10:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 987270)
So what? It's not uncommon at all, especially in states like mine where you pretty much can't get a single varsity game until your fifth year.

No, I am asking to clarify because the way he wrote it is ambiguous whether he actually works college or not.

BillyMac Sat May 07, 2016 12:25pm

That's Right, We're Allowed To Wear Black Belts ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 987270)
It's not uncommon at all, especially in states like mine where you pretty much can't get a single varsity game until your fifth year.

Here, in my little corner of Connecticut, under our old rating/ranking system, it was impossible to work a high school varsity game until one's fifth year, with no chance of getting a full varsity schedule until one's eighth year. That changed with our new rating system, with no minimum experience requirements. If the observation team believes that one is good enough to move up, one moves up, whether it's one's second year, or twentieth year.

We've had several college officials (mostly D-III), with no high school varsity games under their belts.

Raymond Sat May 07, 2016 06:36pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Refhoop (Post 987271)
Then why do you do it?

I started out because I needed money when I divorced my first wife. Now I do it cuz I like refereeing and I want to see how far I can advance. I've never done it for the players or the game.

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk

SC Official Sat May 07, 2016 09:58pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Refhoop (Post 987271)
Then why do you do it?

Because I enjoy it.
Quote:

Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 987273)
No, I am asking to clarify because the way he wrote it is ambiguous whether he actually works college or not.

Gotcha.

BillyMac Sun May 08, 2016 11:15am

I Love Officiating Basketball, But I Wouldn't Do It For Free ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 987276)
I've never done it for the players or the game.

There are lots of reasons why I officiate basketball. Once I'm actually out on the court, I want to do a good job for lots of reasons, one is to do a good job because the players deserve a well officiated game, another is to do a good job for the integrity of the game, these two in addition to a lot of other reasons, including, hot single Moms love a man in uniform.


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