Cincinnati and St. Joseph last play of the game.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

... dunker still gets continuous motion, so I'd say it counts...and one...

Even with continuous motion, doesn't the shot have to be released before the horn in order for the field goal to count?

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Even with continuous motion, doesn't the shot have to be released before the horn in order for the field goal to count?

Why would the clock still be running between the foul and the release?

I think you are thinking of the case of a foul on an airborne shooter.


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[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Even with continuous motion, doesn't the shot have to be released before the horn in order for the field goal to count?

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Why would the clock still be running between the foul and the release?

Good point. Moving away from this specific situation, in general, in all cases, doesn't the shot have to be released before the horn (assuming no timing error) in order for the field goal to count?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

Why would the clock still be running between the foul and the release?

High school game. No video replay. Foul occurs with 0.1 second remaining in period. Whistle is sounded with 0.0 seconds (but no horn) remaining in period. Ball is still in shooter's hand when horn sounds. Ball enters basket. Neither official (assume two person Connecticut) is watching the scoreboard for definite knowledge.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

High school game. No video replay. Foul occurs with 0.1 second remaining in period. Whistle is sounded with 0.0 seconds (but no horn) remaining in period. Ball is still in shooter's hand when horn sounds. Ball enters basket. Neither official (assume two person Connecticut) is watching the scoreboard for definite knowledge.

This is correct for a HS game and for an NCAAW game with no monitor.

IF, in NCAAW, there is a monitor and the whistle was before the horn, put that time back up on the clock, count the basket, shoot 1 FT. I *think* the NCAAM rule is (substantially) the same.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

This is correct for a HS game.

Thank you.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

This is correct for a HS game and for an NCAAW game with no monitor.

IF, in NCAAW, there is a monitor and the whistle was before the horn, put that time back up on the clock, count the basket, shoot 1 FT. I *think* the NCAAM rule is (substantially) the same.

Yes it's the same Bob

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[JRutledge]

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

... NCAAW, there is a monitor and the whistle was before the horn, put that time back up on the clock, count the basket, shoot 1 FT.

As a curious, journeyman, high school official, that doesn't ever have access to a video review, I have to ask: Whistle? Or the actual foul?

[Nevadaref]

The NCAA ruling a few years ago was to use the monitor to restore the clock to the time of the contact for the foul and it did not matter whether the whistle was sounded before or after the horn. All that mattered was that the contact occurred prior to the expiration of time.

Perhaps one of our current NCAAM officials will come verify it that is still the case or if it has changed.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

The NCAA ruling a few years ago was to use the monitor to restore the clock to the time of the contact for the foul and it did not matter whether the whistle was sounded before or after the horn. All that mattered was that the contact occurred prior to the expiration of time.

Perhaps one of our current NCAAM officials will come verify it that is still the case or if it has changed.

It is still the case.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

As a curious, journeyman, high school official, that doesn't ever have access to a video review, I have to ask: Whistle? Or the actual foul?

The NCAAW answer is "whistle."

And it's why I said the rulings were "(substantially) the same."

[deecee]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Even with continuous motion, doesn't the shot have to be released before the horn in order for the field goal to count?

He is partially correct. If there is definitive knowledge that the foul occurred before the timer was stopped then the basket counts. In this case it would not however due to the following case

AR114

On a foul that occurs near the expiration of time, officials must determine that the clock did not stop when the whistle sounded either because a timing mistake occurred or because it was so near the expiration of time that the timer is unable the stop the clock.

If it's a timing mistake then count the bucket and put time back on. If its the latter then basket doesn't count and award 2 FTs.

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

We don't put three guys on the court so we can maximize the odds of a whistle being put on marginal contact.

I think it's presumptuous to assume that two officials abandoned their primary and ball-watched in this situation. There was a lot of stuff to watch under the basket immediately leading up to the dunk attempt.

A play like this is EXACTLY why there are 3 guys. If you think any of the officials are looking elsewhere then you are wrong. Once that ball got to the offensive player all eyes were on him.

Contact to the head is NOT marginal contact and the NCAA and NFHS has said so repeatedly. You can think that's the case but you are flat out wrong.