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-   -   BLARGE in UCONN/Colorado game (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/101133-blarge-uconn-colorado-game.html)

Johnny Ringo Fri Mar 18, 2016 01:26am
BLARGE in UCONN/Colorado game
 
Does anyone have video clip of the play early in UCONN/Colorado game?

Lead calls block and Center calls offensive foul at same time when UCONN player was driving to the basket. According to the box score both fouls were reported and UCONN was given the ball for a throw in.

Nevadaref Fri Mar 18, 2016 02:01am
Do you mean the play-by-play instead of the box score?

Johnny Ringo Fri Mar 18, 2016 09:51am
Correct. The play-by-play was stapled to the box score :) So I went with that.

johnny d Fri Mar 18, 2016 10:26am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo (Post 984526)

Lead calls block and Center calls offensive foul at same time when UCONN player was driving to the basket. According to the box score both fouls were reported and UCONN was given the ball for a throw in.
If it happened the way you describe, what is the problem?

Johnny Ringo Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:56am
No problem at all.

I thought it would be good to see the play. It is something most officials talk/pregame about trying to avoid.

Two whistles on a play and holding and letting one take it, etc...

And to actually see a BLARGE called it could be a good aid for future.

Raymond Sat Mar 19, 2016 04:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo (Post 984631)
No problem at all.

I thought it would be good to see the play. It is something most officials talk/pregame about trying to avoid.

Two whistles on a play and holding and letting one take it, etc...

And to actually see a BLARGE called it could be a good aid for future.
Blarges do not happen because of a lack of pregame discussion, they happen because officials lose their discipline at the time of the play.

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dahoopref Sat Mar 19, 2016 05:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 984655)
Blarges do not happen because of a lack of pregame discussion, they happen because officials lose their discipline at the time of the play.

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It is because of this play is one of the reasons James Breeding is the "alternate" sitting at the table and not working on the floor today.

BillyMac Sat Mar 19, 2016 05:30pm
Block/Charge ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 984655)
Blarges do not happen because of a lack of pregame discussion, they happen because officials lose their discipline at the time of the play.
When a block/charge situation occurs, with double whistles, I'm really good at not giving a preliminary signal until making eye contact with my partner, and remembering what we discussed regarding handling this situation in our pregame conference (usually the lead).

Problems can arise when the crowd is very loud, or our two whistles are sounded at the same exact time, I don't hear my partner's whistle, and I want to sell my call with a strong preliminary signal (especially when I'm the lead).

Knock on wood, thirty-five years and no blarges, but there can always be a first time.

Raymond Sat Mar 19, 2016 06:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahoopref (Post 984661)
It is because of this play is one of the reasons James Breeding is the "alternate" sitting at the table and not working on the floor today.
You have direct knowledge that Breeding was pulled from a game today? Because officials assignments for all this weekend's games are known before the 1st round starts. Officials already know going into their first round game whether they'll be working 1 game or 2.

Rich Sat Mar 19, 2016 06:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 984680)
You have direct knowledge that Breeding was pulled from a game today? Because officials assignments for all this weekend's games are known before the 1st round starts. Officials already know going into their first round game whether they'll be working 1 game or 2.
I'm interested in the answer to this question myself.

(By the way, if it's just speculation, then this is the type of crap this site doesn't need.)

dahoopref Sat Mar 19, 2016 06:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 984680)
You have direct knowledge that Breeding was pulled from a game today? Because officials assignments for all this weekend's games are known before the 1st round starts. Officials already know going into their first round game whether they'll be working 1 game or 2.
When officials receive their assignments for the NCAA Tournament for the 1st round, they are told if they are staying for 1 or 2 days. The ones who are assigned "2 days" are then graded (by site coordinators and NCAA staff) on their 1st game as whether they work on the floor or sit at the table as an alternate. Officials were informed (the following day) by a call from JD Collins as to their Day 2 assignment; on the floor or the table.

Rich Sat Mar 19, 2016 06:22pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahoopref (Post 984688)
When officials receive their assignments for the NCAA Tournament for the 1st round, they are told if they are staying for 1 or 2 days. The ones who are assigned "2 days" are then graded (by site coordinators and NCAA staff) on their 1st game as whether they work on the floor or sit at the table as an alternate. Officials were informed (the following day) by a call from JD Collins as to their Day 2 assignment; on the floor or the table.
Breeding already worked 2 games this week. Could that not have something to do with him being on the table for the second round game?

Raymond Sat Mar 19, 2016 06:30pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahoopref (Post 984688)
When officials receive their assignments for the NCAA Tournament for the 1st round, they are told if they are staying for 1 or 2 days. The ones who are assigned "2 days" are then graded (by site coordinators and NCAA staff) on their 1st game as whether they work on the floor or sit at the table as an alternate. Officials were informed (the following day) by a call from JD Collins as to their Day 2 assignment; on the floor or the table.
I'm still asking, do you have credible knowledge that this is the reason Breeding is an alternate instead of being on the floor?

If so, maybe it was his grade for the entirety of his work, not just a single blarge call. I was critical of his effort in the First Four game, so it's not like I'm saying it is not possible. But your post makes it seem as if you know that he was sat down b/c of a blarge call in his game.

Rich Sat Mar 19, 2016 06:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 984697)
I'm still asking, do you have direct knowledge that this is the reason Breeding is an alternate instead of being on the floor?
Yes, put up or shut up, please.

Do you have inside information or not?

dahoopref Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:32am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 984697)
I'm still asking, do you have credible knowledge that this is the reason Breeding is an alternate instead of being on the floor?

If so, maybe it was his grade for the entirety of his work, not just a single blarge call. I was critical of his effort in the First Four game, so it's not like I'm saying it is not possible. But your post makes it seem as if you know that he was sat down b/c of a blarge call in his game.
Yes; I stand by the information as directly credible. The site committee had issues with either the call or the adjudication of the penalty; I have not seen this play and would like to see a clip of it in it's entirety.

As for the "entirety of his work", if I recall correctly, Breeding was involved in another type of "blarge" play in the Play-In game at Dayton, Vanderbilt vs Wichita St.
Quote:
Originally Posted by AremRed (Post 984278)
11:27 first half, blarge of sorts. Lead official signals off-ball post foul on defender, Slot ships it.
IMO, having 2 "blarges" in 2 separate games is not a good thing when working the NCAA tournament and hoping to advance. I happen to think Breeding is a very good official who has excellent call selection. Sometimes we as officials have a difficult stretch of calls and he happened to do it on a very big stage with many scrutinizing eyes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich (Post 984698)
Yes, put up or shut up, please.

Do you have inside information or not?
How would I exactly do that? Would you like me to tell you how I know what took place? Reveal the source?

I stand by the history of my posts as being accurate, respectful, and non-combative.

Raymond Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahoopref (Post 984731)
Yes; I stand by the information as directly credible. The site committee had issues with either the call or the adjudication of the penalty; I have not seen this play and would like to see a clip of it in it's entirety.

As for the "entirety of his work", if I recall correctly, Breeding was involved in another type of "blarge" play in the Play-In game at Dayton, Vanderbilt vs Wichita St.
IMO, having 2 "blarges" in 2 separate games is not a good thing when working the NCAA tournament and hoping to advance. I happen to think Breeding is a very good official who has excellent call selection. Sometimes we as officials have a difficult stretch of calls and he happened to do it on a very big stage with many scrutinizing eyes.


How would I exactly do that? Would you like me to tell you how I know what took place? Reveal the source?

I stand by the history of my posts as being accurate, respectful, and non-combative.
At least now I don't feel so bad for my assessment of him in the play-in game. I just felt like he wasn't all there. I think we've all been there, I know I have.

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Rich Sun Mar 20, 2016 10:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by dahoopref (Post 984731)
Yes; I stand by the information as directly credible. The site committee had issues with either the call or the adjudication of the penalty; I have not seen this play and would like to see a clip of it in it's entirety.

As for the "entirety of his work", if I recall correctly, Breeding was involved in another type of "blarge" play in the Play-In game at Dayton, Vanderbilt vs Wichita St.
IMO, having 2 "blarges" in 2 separate games is not a good thing when working the NCAA tournament and hoping to advance. I happen to think Breeding is a very good official who has excellent call selection. Sometimes we as officials have a difficult stretch of calls and he happened to do it on a very big stage with many scrutinizing eyes.


How would I exactly do that? Would you like me to tell you how I know what took place? Reveal the source?

I stand by the history of my posts as being accurate, respectful, and non-combative.
I wasn't using the phrase as harshly as it sounded there....just as part of a figure of speech.

JRutledge Wed Mar 23, 2016 12:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo (Post 984526)
Does anyone have video clip of the play early in UCONN/Colorado game?

Lead calls block and Center calls offensive foul at same time when UCONN player was driving to the basket. According to the box score both fouls were reported and UCONN was given the ball for a throw in.
When did this happen?

Peace

Raymond Wed Mar 23, 2016 08:13am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 984969)
When did this happen?

Peace
I just searched the play-by-play for this game. I don't see anything that indicates a double foul was called at any point

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Johnny Ringo Wed Mar 23, 2016 08:19pm
In the play-by-play at the 18:01 mark of the first half you will see fouls called on each team.

Raymond Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Johnny Ringo (Post 985027)
In the play-by-play at the 18:01 mark of the first half you will see fouls called on each team.
NBC Sports didn't have it. ESPN App has it at 18:02.

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JRutledge Thu Mar 24, 2016 05:06pm
Found the video.....Here you go.
 
<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/E1ryOAJlIl8" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Peace

Raymond Thu Mar 24, 2016 05:14pm
Both officials called while moving which is a No-No for most of my supervisors. It was a primary defender coming from the old Center, so I would have liked for him to have had that call. I've been taught not to rotate on an immediate Drive so I would have went back. I think the only double whistle on this play should have been the Trail and Center. The Lead is moving away from where the players are going, there is no way he can have a good look at this play.

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crosscountry55 Thu Mar 24, 2016 09:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 985113)
Both officials called while moving which is a No-No for most of my supervisors. It was a primary defender coming from the old Center, so I would have liked for him to have had that call. I've been taught not to rotate on an immediate Drive so I would have went back. I think the only double whistle on this play should have been the Trail and Center. The Lead is moving away from where the players are going, there is no way he can have a good look at this play.

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Agree on all points. At the very least L needs to be aware that this is a drive from outside his primary, and therefore if he puts a whistle on something he needs to hold his preliminary signal.

Also notice how high the T was working at first. That left him with a LOT of ground to cover to get down to the slot, which is why he was moving when the contact occurred. If he starts lower, it's just a step or two to FTLE and he's probably already still by the time contact occurs.

Which leads me to my next point. As a general observation, I have noticed a LOT of rotations that probably haven't been needed this post-season, even with defenses that have been primarily in zone. With a reduced shot clock this year and lots of zone, I'd expect fewer rotations, but it seems like I'm seeing more. Not all crews, but many.

dahoopref Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 985113)
Both officials called while moving which is a No-No for most of my supervisors. It was a primary defender coming from the old Center, so I would have liked for him to have had that call. I've been taught not to rotate on an immediate Drive so I would have went back. I think the only double whistle on this play should have been the Trail and Center. The Lead is moving away from where the players are going, there is no way he can have a good look at this play.

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Good points. The problem with the Trail (Hess) was his direct line of view of the crash was obscured by #4 blue. He may have had a partial view of the crash but it most likely was not an open look. The Center (Hull) moved up on the rotation of the Lead (Breeding); it would have been optimal if Hull stayed as the C when he recognized the offensive player's drive to the goal. The problem I have with the L making a call that high near the FT line is there is a secondary defender (#40 white) in the RA; #3 white is a primary defender and should be left to the C & T to officiate.

JRut, could you look to see if the crew put the shot clock back to 13 seconds when play resumed? In the case of a "blarge" without a try for goal, the POI is possession of the offensive team with no reset of the shotclock.


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