State Tournament Assignments
 

Curious on the state tournament assignment process in other states, how often the same officials get assigned, and the pool of state tournament level officials.

In VA, state tournament assigments start at the quarterfinals. Generally speaking, association commissioners put forward a pool of officials with the state sanctioning body selecting officials and making assignments.

Quarterfinal crews are all from the same association, are likely selected by their commissioner, and travel to another part of the state for the assingment. Semi-finals and Finals are all played at VCU and involve mixed crews assigned by the state body.

It seems that mostly the same officials are in Richmond every year. There are always newer officials worked in but again, you see a lot of the same faces, as would be expected.

I've heard that the state body will now limit officias to 3 consecutive years of semi or finals assigments. On its face this seems like a good idea, though I do wonder about the pool of state level officials in some areas.

Curious to thoughts on this and how things are handled in other states.

In our state they rotate us around a lot. And it is said that we will only work 3 state finals and that is it. Well that is kind of true, but is not always for a lot of reasons. Also that stated limit applies to what you did in one gender. You could work both genders theoretically, but most officials never wish or never get the opportunity to work both. For example I never put in for girls playoffs so I will never work those games and never have in my career.

But they rotate guys around and even if you work a state final one year, there is no guarantee you will even go back. There are many guys who have worked twice and have never gotten the opportunity again or go several years before they get that possible "third" shot.

For example last year when I went to the State Finals, there is a total of 12 officials that work the weekend in the particular classes. In my group 4 of us were first timers (or rookies), 8 of the officials had been previously. Four of the officials had been the year before. The other 4 had not been in at least a couple of years and 2 of those had not been in about 3 years. So in our state they move people around and it takes time to get through our process.

Peace

Unless I misunderstood, in Texas the first two rounds of the playoffs are assigned by the local chapter. The participating schools agree on the chapter to use and typically leave it to the chapter to select the officials.

For the Regional and State levels, each chapter submits a list of recommendations to the UIL (State governing body)...I think they are allowed 20 names on each list (you will often see names on both list). The UIL, probably in conjunction with the THSBOA, selects officials for the regional and state tournaments...for both boys and girls. I am not sure if an official will work a regional tournament and the state tournament in the same year. Here, each classification (1A through 6A) has their Final Four in the same place...girls one week, boys the next...on Thursday - Saturday. Twelve crews of 4 are assigned to State and the crews that work the finals are selected after the semi-finals (the typically avoid putting a crew in a game with a school from their area).

This year our chapter has an official working his third straight state tournament. A few years ago our chapter could not work a finals game as a team from our coverage area was in every finals.

In Washington, the "regional" round (state round of 16) and state finals are both assigned by the Washington Officials' Association from nominations by local associations.

Allotments to the local associations are based proportionally on number of certified officials and number of schools served (with equal weight); local associations have freedom to make those nominations as they choose. Some use their year-end ratings from previous season (mine); others combine those with a mid-year rating; still others, the board decides; there may be others.

The regional round mixes officials from different associations; my game this past weekend I (from Snohomish County north of Seattle) worked with a Seattle official and one from the Vancouver (WA) area. Travel exists but is rarely more than an hour or two.

The 3 state tournament sites each get 12 boys' officials and 12 girls' officials. They work two classifications at each site, so two 8-team tournaments, over 3 days (2 games each day except saturday, where some only get 1) with crews mixing. Each of the 12 gets a semifinal; two crews of 3 receive a final based on a mix of evaluator and peer ratings.

To me the system here in VA is flawed in the fact that on the biggest stage you get "all star" crews that have not worked together. Shouldn't the biggest games of the year have officials that at least have worked with each other? I know all officials follow the same rules and such, but we all know that a crew that works together usually has a better game. More consistency in play calling, handling coaches, handling players and overall gamesmanship.

If it were me, I would have associations across the state send crews of 3 and maybe even work multiple games at the state if needed.

Just my .02 worth

If you know how to work the system and the mechanics, you do not need to work with someone IMO at all. I work with many officials that I have never worked with and we are fine. Now if you have a system that only allows officials to work with the same guys all year, then that might be considered, but working together IMO should not be a prerequisite for who works playoff games. But again this could be a local thing.

Also our officials are assigned mostly by a cross-section of areas, association affiliation really does not come into play in our area. So if a team comes from my area, I would not be prevented from working their games in the post season either. We are assigned games during the regular season like the NCAA assigns officials. We work for each conference and we might get teams we have had previously during the year or even during the playoffs in some cases.

Peace

I am not saying that working together is a pre-requisite. I am saying that sending crews from an association and those guys have worked together it lends itself to having a more consistently called game.

I am not saying that Semis and Finals are called badly, just seems to me to be a flaw to have nominations and then asking them to work what may be the biggest game they have ever worked with partners that they have no clue about.

As for working with the same people or crew, I find that oftentimes I'm more "with it" when working with different people. That's not to say I'm lazy when working with my crew, but when I'm working with other people I don't know how good or bad they are. For example, I pay more attention to making sure my mechanics are 100% so our communication is as good as possible.

As for how playoffs are assigned in central Ohio (other parts of Ohio may be different... I don't know) voting is done by each local association. My association has around 400 members, and each of them can vote for as many officials as possible for the boys and/or girls playoffs. I believe each association gets to send a certain percentage of their members to the playoffs, so the larger your association the smaller your chances of getting in. I can't remember for sure, but I believe votes are weighted based on how long the voting member has been certified.

Once you are voted in, I don't know how it's determined how many games or how far into the playoffs you officiate. But it seems to be up to whoever assigns the games. Like, they can pick from the pool of officials that got voted in.

What they do not teach the same things? Again if we are working the same system, why would consistency be different?

Peace

Florida
 

In FL, associations submit crews, ranked 1 through whatever, to the FHSAA, who then assign games to the associations for Regional rounds (32, 16, 8). We have 8 classes, so there are a lot of games. Associations might send out as many as 7 or 8 crews in the early rounds and as few as none each round thereafter. The final four and finals are assigned by FHSAA to an association, which chooses a crew, usually its highest ranked. A crew cannot officiate a game for any team more than once in the post season. Also, associations cannot officiate post season games for schools with which they are contracted during the season.

Crews don't necessarily have to travel for the quarter-finals. I believe (and I may be wrong) that the VHSL avoids having crews work games involving teams they officiate during the regular season. There are 3 different associations who work public school games here in Hampton Roads (ODU site), so it's possible for a local crew to work.

Also, you have my son's school, which is playing its games (girls and boys) as the #1 6A South seed up in Richmond instead of at ODU in Norfolk. So I can conceive of the Richmond board (my association) working that game.

An official good enough to the work the VHSL Final Four should be able to work with new guy/gals. College officials often work with officials they have never worked with before.

A good official can work with anyone anytime.

I worked with a guy in the State Finals last year that I never worked with and we did fine. And the head official told us that our game was a great example of how officials from different areas can work together. We had no major problems whatsoever.

Peace

Interesting that in WA and TX the finals crew seems to be selected from the crews that worked the semis or previous rounds if I'm understanding correctly.

Seems like it could cause some scheduling conflicts not knowing if you are working a final until after the semis and also seems to limit the pool of officials getting games. Does seem to have the potential to reward the best officials based on performance in the state playoffs.

I'm still curious about limits on how many state games an official gets. The example from IL of 3 Finals period for officials seems a bit extreme to me but I can see the rationale.

True. They don't always travel but usually do and my guess is for the same reason you mentioned. BTW I will be at ODU on Saturday. Will you be around? I'll PM you.

There is certainly some comfort in working with people you are familiar with but I think they want mixed crews so you don't have all of the officials from one area covering teams from where they live. Or exclude all of the officials from the areas that have the most teams in the semis and finals.

i've had no issues with the mixed crews I've been a part of. This is where a thorough pre-game is important. To discuss officiating philosophy and how we see the game. Officials good enough to be assigned these games can make adjustments and get on the same page as their partners rather quickly. Also many of the officials know each other from working college games, seeing each other at camps, or even previous state tournys. I don't think its an issue at all.

I find it interesting that a lot of you guys talk about associations on a regular basis. We do not have associations. We are all licensed by the state and monitored by the state high school association. We are split up into regions with a region coordinator in charge of each region.

Our postseason is split up into districts, regions, then the state tourney. The participating schools of each district have a meeting to select the officials they want from the area. Once that is done, one AD from one of the schools is put in charge of the district. That person decides who works which games. The winners of two separate districts will meet in the region championship. The officials assigned to that game is a mixture of officials from the two districts that make up the region.

The region winners go on to the state tourney. The officials for the state tourney are selected by a committee put together by the state high school association. 12 officials per 8 team state tourney. Our region coordinators put together a list of officials that they recommend for the state tourney. The committee at the state level uses this information in their selection process. You cannot work a boys and a girls tourney in the same year.

Up until recently, you saw a lot of the same old guys at the state tourneys. Most guys could just put it on their calendar regardless of whether they could really do the job at a high level anymore. Regardless of whether some newer younger officials were maybe "better". Now recently we are seeing a shift from the old guard to newer younger officials that can maybe do the job at a higher level. They are recognizing that our pool of officials is getting pretty old and that they need to move on to the new crop of guys. As long as they are qualified and capable of doing the job at a high level.

The *schools* select the officials? Interesting.

I've often thought there's too much an emphasis on crews around here. Personally, I feel I can walk on the floor with people I haven't met before and if we can all do the job, it won't show in the game. Others disagree with me. I have worked at least 10 games this season with people I'd never worked with before and most of them have gone well. All where the other 2 officials can do the job have.

That is not the policy at all. They just give other officials a chance than just keep sending officials back over and over and over again. The only standing policy is that you can only go back two years in a row, then you must sit a year. The current administrator tries to rotate people around as there are over 5000 officials statewide. Not everyone is going to get a shot, but those that do will not be there year after year.

We also have 4 classes with 4 separate State Final Weekends going by gender and class.

Girls 1A-2A (Last weekend)
Girls 3A-4A (This weekend)
Boys 1A-2A (Nest weekend)
Boys 3A-4A (Following weekend)

There are officials that have worked 3 in one of the weekends only to go a few more times in another weekend.

Peace

By schools, I mean the AD's get together and have a meeting to agree on the officials they want. They do not hire "crews". They hire guys they feel do the job well. Honestly, we don't really have crews here. We all work with a variety of guys during the year.

I agree with you on your crew stance. I don't need to work with the same guys every game, and in fact, I don't. I work with many different officials during the year. Good officials. If we all do our job, there is no effect on me or the game.

Every game in our state tourney is with a crew of 3 that likely have not worked together before, or have very few times.

In 2009, specifically to combat commissioners who refused to send up new names, the VHSL instituted a "State Evaluation" camp in order to identify new officials to work the state tournament. The first 2 years of the camp the commissioner of my local association refused to submit names. He got voted out for that and other reasons. That ouster led to the political nightmare which caused me to take my services up to Richmond.

The Peninsula (1/2 of Hampton Roads) is still a mess 6 years after that election.

I am working my 3rd and final trip this year in 3A/4A girls in Illinois. My first trip was in '11 and my second was in '13 so my times have been spaced out.

I do like how our boys side pair you up with your partners at the Sectional level, giving you 3 games to work together before you reach the State Finals. Where on the girls side you don't find out until the night before you work who you are with and what time. Different philosophies I guess.

In ND we have a multi-faceted approach. Coaches will nominate names and subsequently vote. Then, the 8 site supervisors across the state will nominate 20 officials state wide that they feel are most qualified. Our 8 site supervisors are all good collegiate officials so their input is very valuable. Then, the state governing body will select the officials from those lists. We send 12 officials to each state tournament. Class A & B (boys and girls). We are permitted to work 3 consecutive state tournaments and then you must sit a year to help allow for new blood. I generally like our system as it allows coaches some input but won't allow for a coach to black ball a good official because the site supervisors and state governing body will have their say.

Well that only works in the Sectional Level, it is possible we could get split up and sometimes are split up. We were split up in the State Finals on the final day and the crews that worked the title games did not work together. And there have been years the administrator has broken up the Sectional Crews to work the Super. That could happen this year.

Peace

At least in Texas, this is not an issue as the semi-finals for three of the six classes are played on Thursday with the remainder played on Friday. Finals are played on Saturday. All games at the same arena (Alamodome in San Antonio this year). The officials are all at the same site so the only travel is from the hotel to the arena. And, since they have selected the officials for the semi-finals the size of the pool will never change.

The Constitution State …
 

Connecticut: 100% IAABO, six local IAABO Boards.

The state interscholastic sports governing body assigns all state tournament officials, using Arbiter. Connecticut is a geographically small state and officials can be assigned a state tournament game anywhere in the state, with the maximum one way trip being about one hundred miles.

There are four classes based on school enrollments, however there are exceptions for magnet schools, charter schools, Catholic schools, etc., that have a history of being successful in the state tournament and draw students (it ain't recruiting, wink, wink) from a large geographic area.

Schools that win at least 40% of their regular season games make the state tournament. All coaches, even those that don’t make the state tournament, vote for officials. Officials that receive the most votes are put into a pool that are assigned state tournament games, with some tinkering based on the number of schools that a local Board services. The more votes an official receives, the more likely he is to work further into the state tournament.

Almost all of the local Boards have their officials select either the boys tournament, or the girls tournament. At least one local Board allows their officials to work state tournament games of both genders.

If a state tournament game involves a school from Board A, and a school from Board B, the game will be officiated by officials from one of the other four local Boards. Officials will always work with officials from their own local Board.

If a state tournament game involves two schools from Board A, the game will probably be officiated by Board A officials, although there are exceptions.

State tournament games up to the quarterfinals are two person games. Quarterfinals, semifinals, and finals, are three person games.

State finals, in all four enrollment classes, for both genders (eight championship games), are played at the Mohegan Sun Arena.

That's right, high school kids at an Indian casino, some playing championship basketball games a Sunday.

"Baby needs a new pair of basketball shoes".

https://sp.yimg.com/xj/th?id=OIP.M2d...=0&w=300&h=300

Working the WV tournament requires a good deal of commitment in my opinion. 3 officials are chosen from each regional board and will work their games together. They report on Tuesday night for a meeting and will work a quarterfinal game on Wednesday and another quarterfinal on Thursday. They will work a semi on Friday and if they're one of the top 3 crews (of 6), they will receive a state final on Saturday.

That is similar to how it works in Oregon, except we're selected as individuals.

We still work 2 person crews at the state tournament level. For each classification, 12 officials are needed. The 12 are provided by the associations around the state proportional to the number of schools serviced by each association at that classification. For each classification, the boys and girls play at the same site over a 3 or 4 day period starting at the quarter finals. Every official will get at least 1 quarter final, maybe 2. 8 of the 12 will get semis. 4 will get championships.


4 day format (1 court):

• Day 1: Girls Quarterfinals....8 officials work
• Day 2: Girls Consolation bracket Semifinals & Boys Quarterfinals...12 officials work
• Day 3: Boys Consolation bracket Semifinals & Boys & Girls Semifinals....12 officials work
• Day 4: Boys and Girls Consolation Bracket finals, 3rd place games & Championship games 12 officials work.

All officials work the last 3 days....so you could have 3 or 4 days in a row.


3 day format (2 courts):

• Day 1: Boys & Girls Quarterfinals....12 officials work, 4 work twice
• Day 2: Boys & Girls Consolation bracket Semifinals & Boys & Girls Semifinals...12 officials...4 work twice
• Day 3: Boys and Girls Consolation Bracket finals, 3rd place games & Championship games....12 officials work.

All officials work all 3 days....some working twice in a day but never more than 4 games total. When it is twice in day, there are several hours between the assignments.

Cif-ss
 

CIF-SS Playoffs:

Boys and Girls Open Division (Best of the Best) and Divisions 1aa-6:In all 26 classifications of basketball

*2 person assignments for the first two nights (our school's 2nd rd game was 3 person at the host school's request)

*3 person mandated quarterfinals and forward

*Neighboring associations cover games (unlike in volleyball where the policy is to use local crews thru the semifinals)
-For example: Our school is CBOA (California Basketball Officials Association) Inland Unit.We were officiated by the following associations at home:
1st rd boys- CBOA Foothill Citrus Unit
Qtr Finals boys- CBOA Desert Valley Unit
Semifinal boys- CBOA South Orange County Unit

*Both our road games (Girls 1st rd and Boys 2nd were covered by CBOA Channel Coast Unit.

Our semifinal game
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_YbmWb1Pn4

Thank you to you and the other transfers!

Imagine If They Go All The Way ...
 

To fill up the class brackets, three teams with less than a 40% winning percentage made the state tournament this year, two with records of 7-13, and one with a record of 6-14.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/zbQTXFJL8lo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

What's the big deal?
When Nevada hosts the State Tourney in Vegas the games are played in the Orleans Arena on the property of the Orleans Casino. There are no games on Sundays though.

Those are your Section playoffs. I believe that the thread inquired about the State playoffs. For you that would start with SoCal Regionals and end with the State Finals.

OK well what does everyone call there "State Finals?" What is the last game of the year where a champion is determined?

And when an official works these games, how are you commemorated? Are you listed in a record history (online or in a book) or are you given any special patches, dues changes or any such distinction for working that last game? Or are you considered a State Final Official if you did not work the championship game?

Peace

State Tournament Assignments
 

No such classification here. 90 officials each year work state in WI and all are state officials and receive a plaque (and a star to put on a plaque). On your 2nd through 5th state assignments across all sports you get a star to add to that plaque. In basketball, all crews work 1 game at state, either a semifinal or a final. 5 divisions, 2 genders - 30 total state games across two weekends.

You get a new plaque on your 6th state assignment across all sports and every fifth thereafter.

Had I been given a uniform patch to wear (impossible here since, thankfully, we wear no patches at all) I wouldn't have worn it. I have 2 baseball game hats that say STATE with the year on the back from my two state assignments that I could wear for games (they are legal game hats) and I'd feel like a tool wearing them in a game. Baseball there are only 12 umpires assigned statewide (only 4 new umpires annually) and in the two years I went I worked 11 games.

One Little, Two Little, Three Little Indians ...
 

It was a big deal at the time.

When the idea of using the Mohegan Sun Casino Arena was first brought up in 2009, many in the educational community didn't think it was a good idea to expose teenagers to gambling. The players, and fans, actually have to walk around the interior perimeter of the gaming floor, seeing, and hearing, the slot machines, and observing adults consuming alcoholic beverages, and smoking cigarettes, and cigars, to get to the basketball arena. The seven deadly sins all conveniently located in one place. Dr. Evil would love this place.

And the Casino, in the far southeast corner of the state, isn't really in a central location. Previously, state finals were held at Central Connecticut State University, pretty much in the geographic center of the state.

But the Mohegans made the state interscholastic sports governing body an offer that they couldn't refuse. Plenty of free parking, a professional arena (home of the WNBA Connecticut Sun), and a highly discounted rental fee.

At first, the eight games were all on Friday night, and all day on Saturday. Recently, maybe for the past two years, the Mohegans didn't want to give up their arena on a Friday night. The arena is often used for concerts, which draw large adult crowds to the Casino, especially on a Friday night. So they offered the use of the arena for Saturday, and Sunday games.

Connecticut still hangs on to some of it's old fashioned "blue laws". Until 1818, the Congregational Church was the only legal religion in Connecticut, and Connecticut residents were all legally required to attend Sunday services, and to pay taxes to support the Congregational Church. First Amendment? What First Amendment? We don't need no stinkin' First Amendment here in the Constitution State.

Liquor stores (we call them package stores) were just recently allowed, by legislation, to open on Sundays. Our state interscholastic sports governing body strongly discourages high school teams from practicing on Sundays, high school games are never allowed to be scheduled on Sundays, and only when weather related postponements back up the schedule against the end of the season are postponed games allowed to be made up on Sundays.

Again, the Mohegans made the state interscholastic sports governing body an offer that they couldn't refuse, and the state interscholastic sports governing body reluctantly agreed to have basketball finals played on Saturday, and Sunday, and not on Friday night.

Let's not forget Connecticut's other nickname, The Land Of Steady Habits. There's a reason for that nickname.

I should've clarified - the quarterfinals are Thursday, consolation games and semifinals Friday, and 5th place, 3rd place, and championship games Saturday, all at the same site. 12 officials per gender and site are assigned to work the whole event, and each will work 2 games Thursday (one quarterfinal in each of the two classifications at a site), 2 games Friday (a consolation game and a semifinal), and a consolation game Saturday. Half work a championship game Saturday.

We have no limits on total number of championship games. I worked mine Saturday with someone who has lost count after 15. Some local associations cap number of consecutive state tournament trips (I'm on a "sit year" next year after going the last two years) but none, to my knowledge, cap total trips.

Officials who work state championship games here aren't treated differently than officials who work regional games or who work state tournaments but don't get a final. We all get a pin to wear on our uniform jacket next year.

I hope I did not state this before.
 

We have Regionals and Sectionals and right before the State Finals is the Super Sectional are all state final games. To even be more specific, the State Finals are played at a completely neutral site and at the Civic Center in Peoria for the Boys (where Bradley plays) and in Bloomington for the Girls (Where ISU plays. Officials that work all those levels before state are not considered "State Final Official." And the reason that also matters, they give State Final officials a "patch" on their sleeve and also put their name in the book for their accomplishment. We get no special distinction for working a Regional for example. There is in our system a consideration for our ratings based on the highest level you have worked, but that is all. No pins, patches or publication recognition from the IHSA.

Peace

I can't imagine someone wearing a state final patch. To me, it's an invitation for someone to say, "how can a state final official miss that?"

So, do you wear that for one year or forever?

Where it all games. Usually they shut up if you want to know the truth. ;)

Peace

Don't focus on the negative Rich! Instead think of all the times you could stare downp a fan while pointing to your state finals patch. :D

I would have one if we had them. I just don't see the benefit. Of course we're a no patch state, so I like buying a shirt and not worrying about affixing a patch.

"Patches"
 

The whole patch issue really irks me.....In our state and I don't work hs anymore, you are given one at the state semis and finals. I have two. I used a Velcro patch ( not to ruin the shirt) and after my game my patch went as deep in my junk drawer in my kitchen as possible. It is amazing the number of people I saw the following year wearing their patch at high school games.

Now as far as the NCAA patch...these stories will make you cringe.

1 - I know of someone who would walk into the locker room open up his bag so you could all his patches attached to the underside of his bag and then walk out and leave his bag like that for all to see

2 - I was fortunate to work a college conference tournament game, this guy attached his blue NCAA patch to his winter coat right over his chest so when he walked into the gym everybody knew he was in charge.


Moral of the story....use the patch in that game. Put the patch far far away or make a Christmas ornament out of it....

I have now left my soapbox.....