High School Travel Call (Video)
 

Talk away!!!

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Peace

I'm passing on that in real speed pretty much every time.

On replay though the left foot is his pivot and he does replant it before releasing the ball.

Not making this call but if I see this on film as a coach I'm telling him to clean up his euro step.

Good call, but many won't like it. I don't see why not.

The right foot is the pivot. He replants it.

http://fronheiser.net/2016.02-17_21-07-28.png

No travel.

In real time I doubt I definitively pick up the right foot as the pivot. In a still frame or slow mo, sure. .

I haven't watched the video yet, but I do have to wonder why the thread title needs to denigrate high school officials.

I can't tell if the ball has been gathered from this angle.

I'm a high school official. I don't see the thread title as denigrating.

What is wrong with the title? The title is to suggest the play came from high school game. And it was close and I wanted opinions.

I also normally post videos knowing the schools as the college level. I have no idea what the schools were or even if this was in my state, I just know it was a high school game.

Peace

I have said this before, if you have to slow down to determine, I would rather personally pass on the call.

I also cannot tell by the video or the picture if the ball was actually gathered so that the right foot is the pivot. The official in the video can make that determination much better than we can.

Peace

When someone does an exaggerated euro step, it's gotta be clean.

If I'm sure and get the right foot pivot as the lead, I call it. If I'm not sure, I don't.

One thing I don't do is guess a travel.

I do think he has the ball with the right foot still on the floor, but real time, as the L? Put me there and ask me. While I'll guess on an Internet forum, I won't on the court.

There's no way to know if he recognized the pivot or punished the move.

Of course not, but this is why the picture is valuable and why I posted the video. We have officials that will call something because it is looks funny. I think that is I posted the video. My first impression was no. Then I slowed it down and had a little more doubt. Then your picture makes me think even further he might have gotten this right. Again, very tough play but he was not as wrong as I fight thought.

Peace

I agree with the sentiment that if you need slo-mo to determine a travel then it's best to leave it alone.

I need slo-mo from this angle. As the lead, would I?

If you judge the right foot is the pivot, it's a travel.
If you judge the left foot is the pivot, it's a travel. The reason for me is he drags the left foot after picking it up.

The guy in the video obviously didn't need slo-mo.

Or did he call what looked funny? We would have to ask him if he knew what really happened.

Peace

I've seen too many to count here which may or may not have "looked funny" that were incorrectly no called, so maybe a slight correction in the other direction is not totally unthinkable.

Watching Duke/NC . I was curious to see how long it would take to see a missed obvious travel.

4 minutes

As opposed to a high school game? Suuuurreeeee!!!

Peace

What does a high school game have to do with it? We constantly note travels which are missed/ignored at the college level. You say "Yeah, but they miss them in high school, too." So what? I'm sure they do, but they're not on tv. So now you post a difficult play from a high school game which was correctly called. Not sure what the point was.

If we have no way of knowing, why even bother asking the question? Everyone is just going to guess.

Well it is assumed that other levels pass on travels purposely, so why can't we make reasonable assumptions about the high school level? ;)

Peace

I think we have more video from college games. But when I see HS videos, I see a lot of incorrectly called travels whether they be ones that did not take place or ones that were not called.

Again, this is your point you like to make. I have said for years that traveling is the hardest and most inconsistently called thing in all of basketball. I do not care what level we are talking about, we miss travels often. It is not unique to one level.

Peace

With as frequent and as obvious as travels often are, the only explanations that fit are that it is purposefully ignored even when it is seen or they just don't even watch for it.

I'm leaning the same way here knowing the better look is obviously from the L position. But, based on what I see in the video angle, the left foot is pivot when he gathers. The left foot does not touch the floor again until after the player releases for a try. No travel. But, boy, does it look goofy.

The picture doesn't tell me anything.

If the Lead saw that he gathered with his right foot down, then it's a travel I would have called.

If his left was the pivot I have no travel. I would not have noticed that slight drag of the toe at real speed.

I'm not calling that. As far as euro steps go that one is pretty clean. Of course it may look different from L, but based on this video I'm passing.

I think if he doesn't do the euro step, but rather just a normal left-handed layup and picks the ball up at the same time, then we aren't even having this conversation. Rich, I see your point with the picture, but real time that's pretty tough to tell, and I can't even be certain that it was actually grabbed with both hands with the right foot still on the ground.

I did the best I could to estimate when the ball was in the hands of the player. But without a camera angle view from the L's position, it's impossible to do anything but guess.

I'm not seeing the toe drag in real time. I was the C on Tuesday night when a coach started going crazy about something similar. But I don't guess travels nor do I nitpick them. Had it been his team and I called it he would've been unhappy I picked that nit -- and frankly if I look that close at a toe I'm missing a whole lot else.

I'm dumbfounded that there is any debate on this. The freeze frame shows the right as the pivot. So, obvious travel. Even if you are of the opinion that you can't pick that up real time and view the left as the pivot (as I did on the first watch at full speed), the left is dragged.

That freeze frame doesn't show possession to me, just shows that ball is up in the air contacting his left hand.

And if we are doing freeze frames, then it can't be "obvious".

Dumbfounded? Obvious travel? You said so yourself that at full speed you thought the left was the pivot. And as was just mentioned above, if I'm looking for dragged toes on a move like this I'm not seeing if there is contact on the arm, I'm not assessing the LGP of the defender, among other things.

For this to be a travel you have to have clear view of the dribble ending with the right foot down. Maybe this official had that, but from the angle we do not.

Real time...I have the left as the pivot. Score the basket...play on. Not reaching for "looks funny" travel calls. Have a good day.

Slowed down...I agree the left drags (which I don't see in real time) so therefore a travel. The official got it right.

+1

From the video, I definitely see this play as a travel. I can't say what I would rule on a live real time play.

This was a great call. I actually need to see more videos on this move because players are doing it so much.... On my first viewing before the slow motion I had a no travel call .

Good point, at our view we could not see that without the slow motion.

So I used to try hard to get in position for those travel violations. I lost that battle so I only get the bugs ones or the ones I've viewed and understand the actual movement of too many steps.

I can understand it from fans, but officials really need to stop thinking watching a play multiples times or in ultra-mega-slow-mo is real life.

I wouldn't call this a battle lost, but a lesson learned. Aka you're becoming a better official. Positioning is everything for us, and at the top of the priority list shouldn't be for traveling calls. If you see it, get it, but when finding the best position traveling is the last on my list of cares.

I'm not calling this. If I have to slow it down that much to nitpick the pivot foot, I see it as a play on.

Yep, not wanting to disparage high school officials at all.

I have a travel for the reasons OKREF and Camron spell out above. I'm not sure I would have caught the right as the pivot in real speed, but I am pretty sure I would have got the left foot dragging.

Using video of a correct travel call isn't going to help make some sort of point about high school officials calling travels too much.

I am a high school official too. But this idea that high school officials are pure in how they call the game is maddening to me. I am also not sure it was correct, that is why I wanted opinion in the first place.

Once again, the video is just a video that someone posted on another site. I wanted official's opinions as the people talking about this play were not officials.

Peace

I'd rather miss 9 technical (need video to confirm them) travels than call one that's not there.

Others probably feel differently.

I totally agree with this. I did not think it was a travel when I first saw the video.

Peace

100% agreement on this sentiment.

What's your feeling on 3 seconds :p?

Is A1's right hand on the ball?

I don't avoid making the call just for the sake of not making it if that's what you're asking.

I've probably called it 4-5 times this season, which makes it an average year for me -- it's always one that I've had to get because of the advantage gained by the player being in the lane.

I'm not sure anyone has ever said that. I'm sure HS officials get more stuff wrong than college officials (on average). However, with some of the things that are not called in college games that are quite easy to see, you start to wonder what the reason is.

It is often implied that college officials pass on travels and high school officials would call this without any issue. And we have a couple of posters that will make that point clear when we show higher level plays.

Peace

I'm not implying it, I'm saying it.

The travel in this video is not an example of one that is impossible to overlook, in my opinion.

I was making a joke. There are some officials that make 3 seconds and travel calls their calling cards.

They must, cause I hear coaches and fans screaming it out all the time.

Like the first year guy I worked with last night, who has called maybe 20 games, who had probably 20 travel calls in two JH games? And after he kept saying pivot foot this, pivot foot that? Yeah, call the ones that need called but don't be that guy

Aren't you a fairly new official? You can't really give a first year guy a hard time - let's not forget we were first year officials once and we weren't god's gift to officiating then either. We all have to learn...

Yep, in basketball anyway. didn't give him a hard time at all. Just making an example that if that is what you are going to hang your hat on, need to work harder on other things. Especially since about half of them were not travels.

And I never said I'm gods gift. FAR FAR FAR from it. It's why I'm here.

I didn't mean to imply that you thought you were. It's just hard being a first year basketball official, and many quit after the first year because they are thrown into these chaotic middle school games and left on their own for the most part. In our association this year, they implemented a new set of requirements we all have to meet in order to become eligible to work post-season. One of the requirements are 2 education points. One way to get an education point is for a veteran to work a middle school game with a new official and help them. I think it's a good policy so that more often than not, we have fewer games with 2 first/second year officials thrown to the wolves. Middle school games are the toughest to officiate, in my opinion. The coaches don't know the rules and the play is erratic at best, and the parents are relentless. We are in dire need of officials in this area and we can't afford to keep losing the young ones.

I tell ya man, I would love that. On both sides, I would love more training and education personally and then once I've got a good feel for it, I would love to help the new guy. I do help a lot with newbies in fast pitch. I really don't like being the "senior" guy on the floor when I'm only in my second (third registered) year.

Possibly in your second, and definitely in your third you should be able to start carrying new officials. How many games do you officiate a year? Many will probably disagree with me, but when I first started I was doing 300+ games a year just to get reps in. Looks at plays and reading has been far more valuable to me, overall, than working with vets. Sure, it's great, and you learn some neat tricks, but then you have do decipher which "senior" guys are good and which aren't so good. It's a giant headache I solve by just watching top tier officials officiate. Then seeing how I differ from them. Do I want to change the difference? etc.

First of all, sorry to others that we're basically hijacking this thread, but I wanted to add something that we have here in central Ohio.

When I started officiating I joined our mentoring program, where myself and a couple of other new officials were paired with a Varsity crew. So while the three of us worked the Frosh and/or JV games, the varsity crew would get there early and watch us. Then, at halftime and after the game(s), they would come in and critique us. Finally, after our game(s) were finished we'd watch the varsity crew work, and talk with them at halftime and after the game to learn more.

I'm incredibly thankful for this program as I think it's made me a much better official than I would have been had I been on my own. And our district is known as having the best officials in the state, which is at least partially thanks to programs like this.

My old high school in IL!
 

Funny I see this and it is old gym back in high school. (where I was cut freshman year and never played)

I might not have a travel in real time as it could be a marginal call, but the foot drag seen the second time you watch causes me to say travel.

It is questionable that the right foot is the pivot as with watching in real time from the angle of the trail, you could say that the gathering of the ball is after the right foot is off the ground.