The Official Forum
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)
-   Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)
-   -   Throw-In Situation (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/100847-throw-situation.html)

BigCat Fri Feb 12, 2016 09:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 980576)
Except that its legal for a defensive player to knock the ball out of the hands of the thrower if the ball is held across the plane.
Yes, I know...What I have said is that if they were basing these plays on the ball location rules it would be a violation on the thrower in, A1, if anybody touched the ball while he was holding it over the plane. A1 is out of bounds. Not only legal for B to grab the ball or hit it but also it is a violation on A1.

I know that's not the rule, said so above and mentioned the rule 6 case play. It's a held ball when B grabs it, not a violation on A1. They are not basing these plays on ball location rules. They are using the throw in has not ended stuff...thx

Adam Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:05am
This really isn't an exception, though, since if a ball is being touched by someone with IB and someone with OOB status, OOB trumps. So by ball location rules, the ball still has OOB status if B1 touches the ball when A1 reaches it across. What rule has A1 violated again?

I'm with Nevada, the "note" in the rules that says it's a violation on the thrower if he touches an inbounds player is stupid. Ball location is not affected if a dribbler makes contact with bench personnel or a sub with OOB status, why should this be any different?

bob jenkins Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:11am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 980599)
Ball location is not affected if a dribbler makes contact with bench personnel or a sub with OOB status, why should this be any different?
Nothing to see here. Move along.

Adam Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:22am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 980600)
Huh? Maybe I'm not understanding, but if a dribbler touches a person who is OOB (bench personnel, sub, security guard), the dribbler is OOB.

If the dribbler touches an object (score table, bleacher) then the dribbler is not OOB.
Doh, I may have this backwards, and I'm at everyone's mercy until I get home tonight.

I thought touching objects gave the player OOB status and touching persons did not.

OKREF Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:35am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 980602)
Doh, I may have this backwards, and I'm at everyone's mercy until I get home tonight.

I thought touching objects gave the player OOB status and touching persons did not.
7.1.1 A
SITUATION: A1 while holding the ball inbounds near the sideline, touches, (a) player; (b) a photographer; (c) a coach; (d) an official, all of whom are out of bounds.

RULING: A1 is not out of bounds, A1 must touch the floor or some objects on our outside a boundary line. People are not considered to be objects and play continues. Inadvertently touching someone who is out of bounds, without gaining and advantage, is not considered a violation.

The bold part I have a question about. What if A1 is on the sideline and looses their balance and reaches across the line and pushes on a coach to keep balance and not fall out of bounds. Violation? I think since this case play says inadvertently, and advantage, a violation would be right.

BigCat Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 980600)
Huh? Maybe I'm not understanding, but if a dribbler touches a person who is OOB (bench personnel, sub, security guard), the dribbler is OOB.

If the dribbler touches an object (score table, bleacher) then the dribbler is not OOB.
Other way around. Touching a person out of bounds is ok. touching an object is OOB. 7-1

OKREF Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:47am
Quote:
Originally Posted by crosscountry55 (Post 980082)
AP throw-in, backcourt endline.

A1 has the ball at disposal for the throw-in. Nearby, B1 is defending A2 who is trying to get in position to receive the throw-in pass from A1. Eventually, A2 fakes out her defender and gets close enough that A1 reaches out over the plane with the ball and starts to hand it to A2. However, A2 never grabs or possesses the ball. She comes close, but ultimately the ball rolled partially up her fingertips at which point B1 arrives and is able to get a firm grip on the ball while A1 is still holding it out over the plane.

Q1: Does the ball become dead at any point here, and if so, when/why?

Q2: Assuming there's a whistle and ruling of some sort, what happens next?

Bonus points for defense of answer with rule citation.
I think the second that A2 touches the ball while still in the hands of the A1, we have a throw in violation. The ball must be passed in on a throw in.

4.42.4.....The throw in count ends when the ball is released by the thrower so the passed ball goes directly into the court.

9.2.2.......The ball shall be passed by the thrower directly into the court from out-of-bounds so it touches or is touched by another player (inbounds or out of bounds) on the court before going out of bounds untouched.

Since this is a throw in violation on the offense, team B will get the ball and the arrow will be switched to team B.

bob jenkins Fri Feb 12, 2016 11:58am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCat (Post 980610)
Other way around. Touching a person out of bounds is ok. touching an object is OOB. 7-1
Yes, that's what I typed. Don't know why it showed up the other way around on the list. ;)

Adam Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 980611)
I think the second that A2 touches the ball while still in the hands of the A1, we have a throw in violation. The ball must be passed in on a throw in.

4.42.4.....The throw in count ends when the ball is released by the thrower so the passed ball goes directly into the court.

9.2.2.......The ball shall be passed by the thrower directly into the court from out-of-bounds so it touches or is touched by another player (inbounds or out of bounds) on the court before going out of bounds untouched.

Since this is a throw in violation on the offense, team B will get the ball and the arrow will be switched to team B.
What's the rule violated here?

A1 hasn't released the pass, so the pass isn't illegal.
A1 hasn't handed it off, so that's not the violation.

The ball hasn't gained IB status without a pass, so that's not the violation.

OKREF Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 980619)
What's the rule violated here?

A1 hasn't released the pass, so the pass isn't illegal.
A1 hasn't handed it off, so that's not the violation.

The ball hasn't gained IB status without a pass, so that's not the violation.
I would view this as a handoff. The second it left A1's hands and rolled up the fingertips of A2 the ball has been handed off.

SNIPERBBB Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:10pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by OKREF (Post 980624)
I would view this as a handoff. The second it left A1's hands and rolled up the fingertips of A2 the ball has been handed off.
In the OP the ball never left A1's control

BigCat Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 980613)
Yes, that's what I typed. Don't know why it showed up the other way around on the list. ;)
Been there, done that…:)

BigCat Fri Feb 12, 2016 12:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam (Post 980619)
What's the rule violated here?

A1 hasn't released the pass, so the pass isn't illegal.
A1 hasn't handed it off, so that's not the violation.

The ball hasn't gained IB status without a pass, so that's not the violation.
The argument could be made----A ball is located where a player is in contact with it. Ball is OOB when A1 has it. When inbounds player touches it it is also inbounds. The touch by the inbounds player changes the situation. Since A1 is out of bounds still. violation.

We know that isn't the rule. if it was it would be a violation on A1 when B grabbed the ball. Case play says it is a held ball.

I think you are right that even though an inbounds player touched the ball while it was over the plane, the status of it never changes. If A1 holds onto the ball it is like any other throw in that isn't touched by an inbounds player.

Adam Fri Feb 12, 2016 02:43pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCat (Post 980632)
The argument could be made----A ball is located where a player is in contact with it. Ball is OOB when A1 has it. When inbounds player touches it it is also inbounds. The touch by the inbounds player changes the situation. Since A1 is out of bounds still. violation.

We know that isn't the rule. if it was it would be a violation on A1 when B grabbed the ball. Case play says it is a held ball.

I think you are right that even though an inbounds player touched the ball while it was over the plane, the status of it never changes. If A1 holds onto the ball it is like any other throw in that isn't touched by an inbounds player.
My thought is that if you have to stretch a rule so thin in order to make a call, it's probably best not to make the call.

just another ref Sat Feb 13, 2016 12:29am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigCat (Post 980552)
The case play in rule 9 says it is a violation if A1 reaches out and touches another player on the court. Says that touching gives him inbounds status. We know if A1 is inbounds with the ball and touches another player who's out of bounds it does not make A1 out of bounds. Not sure why the opposite is true in the case play....

Be that as it may, the case play plainly states that this is a violation. The throw-in is a unique situation.

And having said all that, if this is a violation, the teammate touching the ball also seems to be a violation to me.

And if the above doesn't do it for you, perhaps the touch by the teammate could also be considered carrying the ball onto the court.


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:09am.
Page 2 of 3 1 2 3
Show 100 post(s) from this thread on one page



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1