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mrroberts Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:34am

Tax Season
 
Somebody school me... report/not report? Is there a dollar value per school that one would need to make before reporting?

Altor Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:42am

Theoretically/ethically....$1

bob jenkins Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:11am

You should report all your income -- whether paid by cash or check; or from the school or the association / assigner; whether you get a 1099 or not.

you should also deduct all your expenses.

In general, it's far worse to under-report your income than it is to over-report your expenses

crosscountry55 Fri Feb 05, 2016 10:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Altor (Post 979672)
Theoretically/ethically....$1


Yes. But, for purposes of knowing what the amount is for which an individual employer must report your income to the IRS, I think it's $600/yr. Any CPAs out there to confirm?


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Raymond Fri Feb 05, 2016 11:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by crosscountry55 (Post 979775)
Yes. But, for purposes of knowing what the amount is for which an individual employer must report your income to the IRS, I think it's $600/yr. Any CPAs out there to confirm?


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We are still responsible for reporting any income, 1099 or not.

Sent from my SPH-L900 using Tapatalk

Camron Rust Sat Feb 06, 2016 03:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by crosscountry55 (Post 979775)
Yes. But, for purposes of knowing what the amount is for which an individual employer must report your income to the IRS, I think it's $600/yr. Any CPAs out there to confirm?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Federal, yes, it is $600. But, it isn't an employer. If so, you'd get a W2 and not a 1099. That is the cutoff where they are required to file one, but they may file one for smaller amounts.

Reffing Rev. Sat Feb 06, 2016 08:13am

If you had more than $400 of income before expenses you may be required to pay SECA. That is 400 total, not just from 1 school/payer. You're going to need a schedule C and a schedule SE. If you are one of those who work tons of games, you may even be required to pay quarterly tax estimates.

Be careful with your business expenses for officiating. If audited you will probably lose most of the write-offs without very good substantiation.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Sat Feb 06, 2016 08:45am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reffing Rev. (Post 979792)
If you had more than $400 of income before expenses you may be required to pay SECA. That is 400 total, not just from 1 school/payer. You're going to need a schedule C and a schedule SE. If you are one of those who work tons of games, you may even be required to pay quarterly tax estimates.

Be careful with your business expenses for officiating. If audited you will probably lose most of the write-offs without very good substantiation.


It is not $400 income before expenses but taxable profit after expenses.

MTD, Sr.

bob jenkins Sat Feb 06, 2016 09:25am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 979788)
Federal, yes, it is $600. But, it isn't an employer. If so, you'd get a W2 and not a 1099. That is the cutoff where they are required to file one, but they may file one for smaller amounts.

I have heard or read (but do not know for sure) that some entities are required to report all payments to the IRS, but they only are required to send a 1099 to the taxpayer if >$600. It doesn't matter to me what they do -- I know what I do.

Adam Sat Feb 06, 2016 10:05am

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrroberts (Post 979668)
Somebody school me... report/not report? Is there a dollar value per school that one would need to make before reporting?

Everything should be reported.

Checks
Refpay
Cash
Payments in kind

All of it, regardless of amount.

Any 1099s you receive should be extraneous information.

Rich Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:01am

Just got my 1099 from ArbiterPay recently.

I laughed cause I know there are officials out there that were really p'ed off to receive such a thing.

BillyMac Sat Feb 06, 2016 11:19am

Always Listen To bob ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 979683)
you should also deduct all your expenses.

Dues, fines, insurance, camps, mileage (games, meetings, camps), equipment (whistles, lanyards, bag, etc.), uniforms, shoes, books, DVD's, etc.

Wait. I'm being told ... No profit over expenses? Are you sure? Dang it. I've got to get a better schedule.

just another ref Sat Feb 06, 2016 01:11pm

Also, I'm not sure what defines a hobby, (something you do other than your primary job?) but in the past I've been told, if a hobby makes money, it is taxable, but if it loses money, it is not deductible.

Rich Sat Feb 06, 2016 01:17pm

A second job isn't a hobby. A hobby is something you do with no expectation or history of making money.

just another ref Sat Feb 06, 2016 01:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 979816)
A second job isn't a hobby. A hobby is something you do with no expectation or history of making money.


Exactly


Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich
I just drove 160 miles roundtrip last night for $50. I'm not in this for the bucks


Adam Sat Feb 06, 2016 01:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 979817)
Exactly

I'm no accountant, but I'd note that not every game fits that example. Rarely do we drive that far for that little without a mileage stipend to help. A couple of games a year, I may "lose" money.

just another ref Sat Feb 06, 2016 01:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 979822)
I'm no accountant, but I'd note that not every game fits that example. Rarely do we drive that far for that little without a mileage stipend to help. A couple of games a year, I may "lose" money.

Was not focusing on that particular game, but rather the statement "I'm not in this for the bucks." What I was thinking of was the first year official, who spends $1000 on equipment, mileage, and a trip to camp, then only works a handful of games and his gross income is half that. If he reports a loss, it may or may not be upheld in an audit.

Adam Sat Feb 06, 2016 02:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 979824)
Was not focusing on that particular game, but rather the statement "I'm not in this for the bucks." What I was thinking of was the first year official, who spends $1000 on equipment, mileage, and a trip to camp, then only works a handful of games and his gross income is half that. If he reports a loss, it may or may not be upheld in an audit.

My lay understanding is that it takes a few years of losses before the IRS would change it to a hobby.

BoomerSooner Sat Feb 06, 2016 02:07pm

https://www.irs.gov/uac/Business-or-...for-Deductions

This link is from the IRS regarding business vs. hobby. The major presumption the IRS makes in determining if you have a business or a hobby is whether whether or not you made a profit in at least 3 of the past 5 years including the year you are filing. Basically the way they look at it is that if you perpetually have self-employment losses and try to use those losses to offset income from another source, they are going to tell you to quit using your hobby as a tax break.

The ideal way to handle tax issues related to officiating is to get a ledger. I keep a log of everything on my ledger with detailed information including the dates of expenses incurred and how the expenses were associated with income when applicable (i.e. if I had travel expenses that were not reimbursed, I entered the mileage in the travel section of the ledger with the date and which game I traveled to in what location). I keep track of all of my income as well and I know by the end of the year what to expect if I do receive any 1099s. Regardless, I file based on the information I have kept for myself and think of 1099s as potential reminders if I do happen to forget something.

Adam Sat Feb 06, 2016 03:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BoomerSooner (Post 979826)
https://www.irs.gov/uac/Business-or-...for-Deductions

This link is from the IRS regarding business vs. hobby. The major presumption the IRS makes in determining if you have a business or a hobby is whether whether or not you made a profit in at least 3 of the past 5 years including the year you are filing. Basically the way they look at it is that if you perpetually have self-employment losses and try to use those losses to offset income from another source, they are going to tell you to quit using your hobby as a tax break.

The ideal way to handle tax issues related to officiating is to get a ledger. I keep a log of everything on my ledger with detailed information including the dates of expenses incurred and how the expenses were associated with income when applicable (i.e. if I had travel expenses that were not reimbursed, I entered the mileage in the travel section of the ledger with the date and which game I traveled to in what location). I keep track of all of my income as well and I know by the end of the year what to expect if I do receive any 1099s. Regardless, I file based on the information I have kept for myself and think of 1099s as potential reminders if I do happen to forget something.

So make a profit, even minimal profit, at least 3 out of 5 years. Should be pretty easy to control your deductions to make that happen.

Note: consult a tax advisor before taking Adam's tax advice.

scrounge Sat Feb 06, 2016 04:02pm

Be *VERY* careful before deciding to switch to hobby/non-profit classification. One aspect that isn't talked about in that linked document that discusses business vs hobby tests is that hobby expenses are deductible on Schedule A, if you itemize. However, they are classified as miscellaneous deductions and therefore only deductible if they and all other miscellaneous deductions in total are in excess of 2% of your Adjusted Gross Income (AGI). If the total isn't in excess of 2% AGI, then you don't get to deduct it.

Welpe Sat Feb 06, 2016 04:18pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich (Post 979806)
Just got my 1099 from ArbiterPay recently.



I laughed cause I know there are officials out there that were really p'ed off to receive such a thing.


I really do take more pleasure than I should from hearing officials whining about getting a 1099.

And Rev, I claim only sure thing expenses for officiating. I'm not worried about losing any deductions.

Camron Rust Sat Feb 06, 2016 04:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 979799)
I have heard or read (but do not know for sure) that some entities are required to report all payments to the IRS, but they only are required to send a 1099 to the taxpayer if >$600. It doesn't matter to me what they do -- I know what I do.

I file the 1099s with the IRS on behalf of many of my Reftown clients. None of them report anything for those making below $600. There may be some, but I haven't seen any.

There are a few who, in very special cases, have to report all income to a government entity. But it isn't the IRS. The ones I'm aware of are related to garnishments for various reasons and it is usually a state level entity.

There are some individuals who are subject to backup withholding. That may mean that person has to get a 1099 no matter how much they make. Maybe that is related to prior tax payment problems. Not sure...I don't have anyone in the ones I file subject to that.

scrounge Sat Feb 06, 2016 04:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 979837)
I file the 1099s with the IRS on behalf of many of my Reftown clients. None of them report anything for those making below $600. There may be some, but I haven't seen any.

There are a few who, in very special cases, have to report all income to a government entity. But it isn't the IRS. The ones I'm aware of are related to garnishments for various reasons and it is usually a state level entity.

There are some individuals who are subject to backup withholding. That may mean that person has to get a 1099 no matter how much they make. Maybe that is related to prior tax payment problems. Not sure...I don't have anyone in the ones I file subject to that.

The IRS, in recent years, has leaned on and 'encouraged' entities with high independent contractor expenses to issue more 1099s. But indeed, the legal requirement is only if any single contractor/vendor gets $600 in total. I think the trend of more 1099's will only grow.

Here, there's one school district that issues 1099s to everyone. I got one 2 years for 1 game. $40.

WhistlesAndStripes Sat Feb 06, 2016 10:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 979796)
It is not $400 income before expenses but taxable profit after expenses.

MTD, Sr.

Net income.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Sun Feb 07, 2016 06:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 979796)
It is not $400 income before expenses but taxable profit after expenses.

MTD, Sr.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes (Post 979867)
Net income.


If one has a profit of $400 or more on Line 31 of his/her Schedule C for 2015, then that person has to pay SSC taxes. If your figure on Line 31 is a profit it is a taxable profit.

MTD, Sr.

Reffing Rev. Tue Feb 09, 2016 09:26am

1 more caveat

If game fee and mileage are on the same check then according to the irs they are both game fee/income. Mileage must be documented and paid separately from fees/wages/salary. I.e. if game fee is $100 and mileage is 100 miles, $50 (easy to do in Nebraska) and your check is for $150, then as far as the irs is concerned that game fee was $150.

Furthermore you can't claim mileage from "home" commuting to work isn't a tax break, but if you can document and substantiate that you have a designated home "office" for your officiating then you can claim mileage.

There is debate about mileage to camps/clinics, unless such camps are required by your employer or your "business"

In other words just be careful. But don't cheat on your taxes. Our avocation requires us to be credible men/women of integrity.

Adam Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:12am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reffing Rev. (Post 980159)
Furthermore you can't claim mileage from "home" commuting to work isn't a tax break, but if you can document and substantiate that you have a designated home "office" for your officiating then you can claim mileage.

Not the advice I got from a tax pro. Commuting to work from home is not deductible for W2 employees. No one I know of is W2 for officiating. Independent contractors (what we do) are different, though, and can deduct mileage to and from games.

As always, consult your tax professional.

dsqrddgd909 Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:19am

https://www.irs.gov/publications/p334/ar01.html

scrounge Tue Feb 09, 2016 11:22am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reffing Rev. (Post 980159)
1 more caveat

If game fee and mileage are on the same check then according to the irs they are both game fee/income. Mileage must be documented and paid separately from fees/wages/salary. I.e. if game fee is $100 and mileage is 100 miles, $50 (easy to do in Nebraska) and your check is for $150, then as far as the irs is concerned that game fee was $150.

Furthermore you can't claim mileage from "home" commuting to work isn't a tax break, but if you can document and substantiate that you have a designated home "office" for your officiating then you can claim mileage.

There is debate about mileage to camps/clinics, unless such camps are required by your employer or your "business"

In other words just be careful. But don't cheat on your taxes. Our avocation requires us to be credible men/women of integrity.

Additionally, and probably of much more relevance to most officials, mileage from your regular work location to a temporary work location (which almost everywhere we officiate would be unless you're going to the same place so often that it's a regular work location) is deductible, regardless of home office status. The home office thing is essentially the same thing, since it would then be your regular location so travel from home directly to the temp work location would then be deductible.

Here's a handy chart from the IRS to help (not applicable if you work from home):

https://www.irs.gov/publications/images/11081l02.gif

and the original IRS publication:

https://www.irs.gov/publications/p46...link1000136362

Welpe Tue Feb 09, 2016 12:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam (Post 980176)
Not the advice I got from a tax pro. Commuting to work from home is not deductible for W2 employees. No one I know of is W2 for officiating. Independent contractors (what we do) are different, though, and can deduct mileage to and from games.

As always, consult your tax professional.

That's the same exact advice I've gotten. I trust this lady, she used to work for the IRS and trained quite a few agents.

Adam Tue Feb 09, 2016 01:00pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 980211)
That's the same exact advice I've gotten. I trust this lady, she used to work for the IRS and trained quite a few agents.

I think the difference is whether you're going to a regular office, or whether you're going to other locations.

A realtor is a good example. They don't get to deduct mileage to the office, but they can deduct mileage they use to meet clients in other locations; whether they have a home/work office or not.

Camron Rust Tue Feb 09, 2016 02:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrounge (Post 980182)
Additionally, and probably of much more relevance to most officials, mileage from your regular work location to a temporary work location (which almost everywhere we officiate would be unless you're going to the same place so often that it's a regular work location) is deductible, regardless of home office status. The home office thing is essentially the same thing, since it would then be your regular location so travel from home directly to the temp work location would then be deductible.

Here's a handy chart from the IRS to help (not applicable if you work from home):

https://www.irs.gov/publications/images/11081l02.gif

and the original IRS publication:

https://www.irs.gov/publications/p46...link1000136362

Note the line about temporary locations....

Quote:

Temporary work location: A place where your work assignment is realistically expected to last (and does in fact last) one year or less. Unless you have a regular place of business, you can only deduct your transportation expenses to a temporary work location outside your metropolitan area.
I think this implies that someone only doing officiating for income can only deduct their mileage for games outside of their metro area but someone with a day job can deduct it at all times.

scrounge Tue Feb 09, 2016 03:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 980245)
Note the line about temporary locations....



I think this implies that someone only doing officiating for income can only deduct their mileage for games outside of their metro area but someone with a day job can deduct it at all times.

Indeed, that's how I read it from the text in the publication. Not just full-time officials, but anyone whose primary place of business is their home. If you work from home and that's your 'regular job' location, then any commuting to temporary work locations in your metro area would be considered non-deductible.

Welpe Tue Feb 09, 2016 06:27pm

I'm really glad this thread came up now. I'm going to have to discuss this in detail with my tax person since I started working from home this past year.

Adam Tue Feb 09, 2016 09:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Welpe (Post 980295)
I'm really glad this thread came up now. I'm going to have to discuss this in detail with my tax person since I started working from home this past year.

Let me know what she says. I'm curious.


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