When to call the Technical
 

A1 fouls out of the game. The proper order was done and a substitute checks into the game. Play resumes and I notice the player that just fouled out leaves the bench and heads to the locker room. But the resumption of play was with the opposing team with the ball and trying to score. I decided to delay until the opposing team had their opportunity to score. After successful shot, I blew the whistle and called the T. My question is would you have waited or called it immediately?

You handled it correctly. You dont want to put a team at a disadvantage for a violation committed by their opposition.

I wouldn't have called it at all. All A1 did was leave the bench? Did he demonstrate disgust on his way to the locker room?

The way you described it, there's no way this is a T.

In A Cup Instead ???
 

A technical foul for going to the men's room? That's rather harsh, don't you think?

Did you charge this T to the player? Because then not only do I strongly disagree with giving a T at all in this instance, but you misapplied the rule as well.

NFHS 10-5-5: “The head coach shall not permit team members to leave the bench area and/or playing court for an unauthorized reason.”

This is the only rule reference that justifies a T here, and if you're going to go there, you have to charge it to the head coach. Or you can just not go there at all...going to the locker room is an authorized reason to leave the bench.

Player ???
 

... he's not a player, he's bench personnel. He was disqualified with five fouls.

To add to the other comments: Before handing out the technical did you know whether the HC told the player to go to the locker room or whether the player asked and was given permission by his HC?

Sometimes it's better to leave well enough alone.

Leaving that one alone short of an overt show of unsportsmanlike behavior.

Not a tech unless done in an unsporting manner. Just like I'm not gonna call a tech for a kid changing his jersey in the bench area due to blood. Not the purpose of the rule.

Reasons ...
 

AremRed: I fully agree with you in practice, but in theory, be careful to differentiate between a player technical foul for unsporting and a head coach technical foul for unauthorized leaving the bench area. These two rules are not 100% interchangeable. Note the slightly different wording for the reasons to charge a technical foul, and remember a player is one of five, most others are bench personnel (head coach responsible), certainly a team member who has been disqualified with five fouls.

10-5-5: The head coach shall not permit team members to leave the bench area and/or playing court for an unauthorized reason.

10-3-6-I: A player shall not: Commit an unsporting foul. This includes, but is not limited to, acts or conduct such as: Leave the playing court for an unauthorized reason to demonstrate resentment, disgust or intimidation.

The rule below might be useful in regard to unsporting behavior as described in the original post (if a technical foul is to be charged, a separate question):

10-4-1: Bench personnel, including the head coach, shall not: Commit an unsporting foul. This includes, but is not limited to, acts or conduct such as: e. Objecting to an official’s decision by rising from the bench or using gestures; f. Inciting undesirable crowd reactions.

Yes, correct.

This is just me...I wait until B has finished their possession and A is in team control. Then I stop the game and make the head coach aware that he has a player that has left the bench and ask if he is aware. Second, I'd ask if an assistant has accompanied him.

If he's alone, I'd say something akin to 'for his safety, we need him back out here. I'm sure you understand.'

If I were the coach, id look at you like you were from Mars and say…"Safety? He's 17 years old…." If you are going to do something i'd say get him back out here...the rule requires he stay.

Now, if he is just heading to the locker room (not acting like an idiot) I'm not getting involved, at all. I don't care if he asked his coach for permission or not.

I would echo this entire post. That coach is going to make a big deal about you saying that. Why make a mountain out of a molehill?

I would not do any of this, nor would I recommend this to anyone. The OP, from what was described, was incorrect in.

1) giving the T
2) giving the T to the wrong individual

Unless its a sportsmanship issue the bench and what goes on there really isn't my concern. For all I know the kid needs to go p.p.

Overall a bad T and incorrect application of the rules. Learn from it and don't do it again.

And the coach will look at you like you're a moron.

You have no rules support to ask if an assistant accompanied him to the locker room. Leave any of that to the coach. Players leave the bench to go to the bathroom/locker room all the time. As far as I'm concerned, that's an authorized reason. The intent of the rule is to penalize team members who leave the bench to demonstrate disgust or otherwise show unsportsmanlike behavior. Nothing more.

Here, if a team member leaves the bench and goes to the locker room, he must be accompanied by a coach, assistant coach, or and administrator. Otherwise they must remain on the bench. The reasoning we have been given is for player safety.

OP doesn't say he gave the T to the player, just that he called the T . . .

Where does it say what the purpose for the rule is?

Is that a rule for officials or a rule for coaches / teams?

I seem to recall that an official can't SEND the team member to the lockerroom unaccompanied; but I don't know that it's up to us to monitor what happens after we send the player to the bench.

Actually, the intent of the rule is to assess a "T" even in that situation. You have to go all the way back to when the NFHS issued it's interps regarding the rule ... 2005 season.

SITUATION 5: A1 is directed to leave the game with a blood-saturated jersey. While at the team bench area, he/she removes the jersey and changes into a clean, spare jersey. RULING: A1 is assessed a technical foul. Team B is awarded two free throws and the ball for a division line throw-in. COMMENT: The uniform rule is intended to be applied in all situations. It is not unreasonable to expect team members to leave the playing area to change uniforms. (3-4-15; 10-4-1h)

Nowhere as far as I know, which is unfortunate.

Cool! Unfortunately I don't think that interp is present in the current rules book. As some might know I am hesitant to apply rules based on interpretations from many years ago (eg. the technical foul for teams running around the opposing players warming up).

If I can't open my current rule book and point to it, why should I be applying it?

Correct as for us as an official. I'm not monitoring what happens when/if an ejected or disqualified player leaves the bench and goes to the lockerroom. Only if I send him will I ensure that he doesn't go alone. If I remember correctly the schools were also sent the same email and they were responsible for attending to the player.

Because the rule is quite clear without the interpretation. It's one thing when the rule is ambiguous, or even says the opposite of the existing interpretations, but this isn't one of those cases.

I'm not touching this one. If the coach sends his player to the locker room.

1. I'm considering that authorized.
2. I'm assuming there's someone there to watch him.

This is not something we should be involved with, IMO, unless the kid is disrupting play or making unsporting comments or gestures.

For you and the sake of your future partners... please don't do this.

If you want to die on that hill, go ahead. You're not incorrect in your assessment. But I'll pick my battles and leave well-enough alone on this one. I've always heard guys say "don't go searching for T's, they'll find you." I think in this case, you're hunting for one.

I agree. Sort of. However, if I know a player has blood on his shirt and needs to change, I'm miraculously paying no attention to anyone but the players on the court. In other words, it's not something I'm meticulously watching for.

Why not simply give the coach a quiet reminder before the kid takes off the shirt?

Billy: There is a P.S. for you.
 

I agree. While disqualified players are to remain on the bench so as to be under the supervision of their coach, there may be a valid reason for the player leaving. A case in point: The OhioHSAA allows players to play five quarters per day, i.e., in a FR/JV/VAR tripleheader a player may play one QT in the FR game, one quarter in the JV game, and then still be eligible to play in three QTs in the VAR game. Therefore, a player who has fouled out in the 4th QT of the JV after playing three QTs still has two QTs of eligibility for the VAR game and the JV HC is sending that player to the locker room to be with the VAR players and VAR HC.

MTD, Sr.


P.S. Billy: Last year Mark, Jr., and I had a girls' JV game the ended up going three (:eek:) OTs (don't tell Padgett). At my age I always (with apologies to the late J. Dallas Shirley) use the rest room for a #1 just before we leave the locker room before the game. I then use the rest room again at HT. For this particular game I did not avail myself of the rest room at HT. During a TO with literally seconds left to go in the 2nd OT, I tell Junior that if this game goes to a 3rd OT, there will be a delay to the start of the 3rd OT. Sure enough, V1 scores a layup at the buzzer to tie the game. When I got back on the court, Mark told me that both teams were going to shoot 2 FTs because he had charged me with a delay of game TF, :p.

If someone takes the jersey off right in the gym, the T has found you. Only pure disinterest in applying the rules gets you out of calling that one. Sometimes you can't save players from their own stupidity.

What are you going to say to the opposing coach when he confronts you with not calling the blatantly obvious technical?

I was talking about the T for leaving the bench anyway, but with regard to the jersey I'm going to say something to the tune of "I didn't see it, coach. I was focused on the action on the court," if I happen to be in that situation

Every time I've seen this happen, it's literally been a player 3 feet in front of the referee during a dead ball to deal with the blood on the jersey. Good luck with that excuse.

...and as somebody mentioned, a bit of preventative officiating (i.e. "hey coach, make sure he does that in the locker room") will avoid that whole situation.

In a high school Xmas tournament I watched, a kid played the first quarter with a white t-shirt under a blue jersey. At the quarter break, an official told him the T-shirt needed to go. So the kid removes both shirts at the bench--with no repercussion. From the fourth row, it was pick and choose deluxe.

As you say, it's so easy to help yourself in this one with a quick "and change outside of court view"

I'm not even quiet about it.

"Coach, keep me out of trouble and send him out of the gym where I can't see him to change his shirt."

Stupid rule, but pretty damned clear cut.

Don't put your creditability and integrity in jeopardy.

Advise the coach, then if they don't comply and you have to call it, they'll know why.

I think Title IX forced that rule upon us. :D

You are probably right, but the Title IX beneficiaries are the worst offenders sometimes.

OTOH, it was well established law when I was in school, and I don't remember the girls walking around with just their sports bras on.

I'm pretty sure I'd remember that. :)

Yup. Couple times a player starts to take the jersey off I stop him and tell him to do it in the hallway and away from the gym.

Worked a holiday tourney earlier this year with one of the girl's national teams from Australia. During warmups we noticed that both teams were wearing their white jerseys, and only the Australia uniforms were their dark on the other side, so they offered to change. Every girl just went behind the bench, which was where the majority of the fans were sitting, and stripped off both their shirts and shorts to turn them around (all had some for of spandex underneath, you pervs). My partner and I were in our pre-game spots across from the benches and every single pair of male eyes were focused on the Australia bench. It was pretty funny to see all heads turned that way. They are a little less prudish down under, apparently.

Because I have a 100% chance to forget if I'm not the one closest to the coach. If I'm there I'll hopefully remember to say something. If not, then I'm not going looking for a T.

Sometimes the players give you no choice but to call a T.

That's a fair point, but I tend to not pay attention to the bench unless they give me reason to.

If the crew sends a player off to change a jersey (or whatever), then it is the crew's responsibility to monitor the situation. When the notification is made to make the uniform adjustment a caveat needs to accompany it, "please make sure your player leaves the visible confines of the gym." "I don't pay attention to the bench" is not acceptable in this situation.

Man, you guys are really splitting hairs here. I'm fairly certain I've never informed a player that they need to change their jersey and not had the coach tell them to go in the locker room. That's because I tell them to do it somewhere else. I'm also 100% certain that I'm not going to hold up a game to watch a player leave the confines because it's my responsibility to monitor the situation. I'm going to tell the coach to get it taken care of, and then when the player tries to check in again, I'm going to make sure the situation is rectified. If it is brought to my attention that the player is in the act of doing something illegal, I'll T. Otherwise, I'm not going to worry about it because it's a minuscule part of the game that is going to take care of itself 100% of the time. If a guys says to me after the fact "Hey, why didn't you T him up for changing in the confines," there is a pretty good chance that I didn't see him doing it, and I'm not going to make up some excuse as to why I didn't T, I'm going to tell them that I didn't see it. Ref it how you want, but like I said, any ref worth his salt is going to say "Coach, get it taken care of, and make sure I can't see him/you when he/you does/do." I don't really think it's worth the time that I've already put into this discussion, and I think you guys are reaching for an argument here where there really isn't one.

"Coach, #23 can't play with that undershirt, it's the wrong color. make sure he leaves the visual confines before he changes, though."

I do this about 2 or 3 times a year sometimes.

Some people will do whatever is necessary to avoid calling a technical foul.

Including lie, it appears.

If that's referring to me, can you point me to the lie? If I tell a guy to change and leave, I'm not eagle eyeing him to make sure he does. If I told a coach "I didn't see it," I'm saying it because I didn't not because it isn't true.

I was under the impression that the discussion was centered around blood. I don't ever remember seeing blood on a jersey during warm ups.

I'm not reaching for anything. I'm saying how the situation is handled properly, which in my cases has always been before the game started. So I can't use the cop-out that I'm not paying attention to the benches since I'm standing there doing nothing else except staring in the direction of the benches.

I ref everything like I want. What I don't do is come up with these big-timing claims that I'm too busy to handle the responsibilities and duties not directly related to calling fouls and violations.

Well you spouted off like I'm some rookie looking to make up stuff. Players in warm-ups get notified when they are wearing illegal T-shirts, which is 100% of the times it has occurred in my situations.

Players with blood get sent to the trainer first to see if the situation can be remedied. If they have to change I wouldn't know that b/c by that time we are playing the game again.

I would NEVER instruct a coach or player to do something and then have the excuse that I did not see what transpired. At the least I would retort with, "I saw XYZ player head out the gym" but I would never have the balls to say "O I told the coach to have him change off the confines then I didn't see anything."

The only time I have a response with I didn't see anything is

1) contact out of my PCA
2) something happened behind me unexpected

Otherwise I always see something. It may not be useful, but it's something.

Dad posted

I agree. Sort of. However, if I know a player has blood on his shirt and needs to change, I'm miraculously paying no attention to anyone but the players on the court. In other words, it's not something I'm meticulously watching for.

That's what I was talking about. I didn't even realize anyone was talking about undershirts at any point other than the guy talking about the Australian national team. Where in the world did I "spout off" like you're "some rookie looking to make up stuff?"

Anyway, to get back to the actual topic, I don't have a T for the kid leaving the bench after fouling out. If you do, I don't have a problem with but that's not something that I'm going to chase down and worry about late in a game where the action is likely intensifying.

Players with blood on their jersey get inspected by the trainer first. They are not instructed by us to change their uniform unless it cannot be appropriately cleaned.

Shy ???
 

Not really. Many high school girls consider sports bras to be nothing more than two piece bathing suit tops. I know, I coached at many summer camps where girls have to change their reversible jerseys from game to game. They think nothing of changing in front of dozens of people, including men and boys.

Always Listen To bob ...
 

10.5 SITUATION: (a) The head coach is charged (directly or indirectly) with a
third technical foul, or a second direct technical; or (b) A1 commits a flagrant
technical foul against B1. RULING: In (a), the coach shall leave the vicinity or the
playing area and have no further contact with the team. The official has no option
and may not set aside the provision which requires removal. This also applies to
all adult bench personnel who receive two technical fouls. In (b), the flagrant
technical foul disqualifies A1 from further participation in the contest. A disqualified
team member or student bench personnel shall go to or remain on the
bench. However, in an unusual situation, an official has the authority to require
that these individuals who have committed a flagrant technical foul must leave the
vicinity of the court. This action is necessary when permitting such offenders to
remain at courtside would tend to incite the crowd, to incite the opponents, or to
subject the officials, opponents or others administering the game, to unsporting
harassment. In such circumstances, the official should require the individual who
has committed a flagrant foul to leave the vicinity of the court with an adult supervisor.
It must be emphasized that an official does have this authority, when the
circumstances resulting from any flagrant foul warrant it. (10-5 Note)

I think that was part of his point. The NFHS can't put in a rule just for girls. So while the rule may have been implemented because of the facts you lay out here, it has to be applied to both genders.

Most locker rooms are within about 25 feet of their bench, so why is this a big deal to anyone? Inform coach of the issue (blood, illegal undershirt, whatever) and tell coach to make sure they change in locker room. I'm in the camp that this takes care of the issue. And if for some oddball reason they go shirtless right there, pretty much the easiest T you would ever have to write up.

I have to remember to use blue font and emoji's for Billy. :D

New Fangled Fancy Computers ...
 

What's an emoji? Is it something on the Google.