Just a rough night...

Smitty

bisonlj wrote
I work football and those comments wouldn't even draw a thought to me.

How is this relevant?

Eastshire

bisonlj wrote
I work football and those comments wouldn't even draw a thought to me. He's mostly disagreeing with judgement calls which is understandable. He is biased and has a different perspective. If he's not calling you a cheater or cursing at you, he is just blowing off steam. Maybe that's why your partners had a different threshold.

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Yeah, but you football guys are crazy. 😀

I like how they put it in soccer: public, persistent, or personal. Yelling "You're crazy!" is both public and personal and an easy T. The second comment is challenging his integrity and is right on the line if not over it.

Raymond

bisonlj wrote
I work football and those comments wouldn't even draw a thought to me. He's mostly disagreeing with judgement calls which is understandable. He is biased and has a different perspective. If he's not calling you a cheater or cursing at you, he is just blowing off steam. Maybe that's why your partners had a different threshold.

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The comment the V coach YELLED across the court is easily T-worthy. The 2nd T wasn't for a comment, it was for being up and demonstrating disgust after getting the seat belt.

junruh07

Eastshire wrote
The second comment is challenging his integrity and is right on the line if not over it.

If a coach who has already been seatbelted, stands up and yells and stops his feet to protest a call, his actions are well over the line. I learned when I started reffing intramurals that sometimes you just have to take care of business and try not to worry about the fact that you're the only one on your crew with the stones to do it.

Rich

"You're crazy" is personal. It's a technical in basketball and 15 in football. In baseball it's an ejection.

Standing and stomping in disgust after getting a technical already? Good bye.

bainsey

Eastshire wrote
I like how they put it in soccer: public, persistent, or personal.

Don't forget "profane." And yes, "you're crazy" is a T/yellow card (unless you think the coach is trying to stop the clock with a card. In that case, take your time on the restart).

bballref3966, there's no substitute for experience. You earned some experience last night.

Eastshire

junruh07 wrote
If a coach who has already been seatbelted, stands up and yells and stops his feet to protest a call, his actions are well over the line. I learned when I started reffing intramurals that sometimes you just have to take care of business and try not to worry about the fact that you're the only one on your crew with the stones to do it.

The second comment was the "glad you called it because your partner wasn't going to." not the foot stomp.

Raymond

Eastshire wrote
The second comment was the "glad you called it because your partner wasn't going to." not the foot stomp.

It's a personal comment directed at an official. And after already being T'd up, he's taking a chance that comment could send him. That's questioning an official's integrity in my book.

Rich

BadNewsRef wrote
It's a personal comment directed at an official. And after already being T'd up, he's taking a chance that comment could send him. That's questioning an official's integrity in my book.

I read it as questioning his competence, but it could really be read either way.

bisonlj

I would never consider a UNS for a coach who says "you're crazy." He's frustrated because a call went against him and in his judgement is wrong. It sounds like basketball had a different threshold which may have as much to do with how much more visible a coach is. I have no issue with you guys calling that in your games.

I was at a game Friday night and the visiting coach took off his coat and threw it on the ground after a kicked ball call that prevented his team from getting a turnover. The play happened directly in front of me and I agreed with the coach (my kids attend the home school). An official was just fooled somehow. It happens. There was no T but it could have been because none of then saw it. He had complained a free times earlier but I have no idea what he said and he never got a T. I thought the crew did a good job considering I don't know rules and mechanics for basketball.

Raymond

bisonlj wrote
I would never consider a UNS for a coach who says "you're crazy." He's frustrated because a call went against him and in his judgement is wrong. It sounds like basketball had a different threshold which may have as much to do with how much more visible a coach is. I have no issue with you guys calling that in your games.

I was at a game Friday night and the visiting coach took off his coat and threw it on the ground after a kicked ball call that prevented his team from getting a turnover. The play happened directly in front of me and I agreed with the coach (my kids attend the home school). An official was just fooled somehow. It happens. There was no T but it could have been because none of then saw it. He had complained a free times earlier but I have no idea what he said and he never got a T. I thought the crew did a good job considering I don't know rules and mechanics for basketball.

Removing and throwing your jacket is an "automatic" T in NCAA-Men's. Have to ask Baylor's coach if the same philosophy applies on the women's side.

deecee

A coach throwing his coat (or clipboard, or a student, or anything for that manner) in disgust over a call or non-call is a T if I witness it 100% of the time.

There are occasions where a coach may throw a jacket or the clipboard because of frustration towards the players. In these cases I don't T but I do let him know if he does that again I will.

Rich

bisonlj wrote
I would never consider a UNS for a coach who says "you're crazy." He's frustrated because a call went against him and in his judgement is wrong. It sounds like basketball had a different threshold which may have as much to do with how much more visible a coach is. I have no issue with you guys calling that in your games.

I was at a game Friday night and the visiting coach took off his coat and threw it on the ground after a kicked ball call that prevented his team from getting a turnover. The play happened directly in front of me and I agreed with the coach (my kids attend the home school). An official was just fooled somehow. It happens. There was no T but it could have been because none of then saw it. He had complained a free times earlier but I have no idea what he said and he never got a T. I thought the crew did a good job considering I don't know rules and mechanics for basketball.

And I would throw that flag in a heartbeat in a HS game. No coach gets personal on a sideline and gets away with it. Actually, my wing would throw the flag as I'm an R on Friday nights.

In an NCAA football game my threshold may be a bit different, but I know for a fact I'd address that with any coach I've worked for.

The jacket throw would be an automatic for me in a basketball game whether I missed a call or not. I can't control missing a call once in a while, but he can always control his reaction.

SC Official

bballref3966 wrote
I could've sent him when he made a comment to one of my partners along the lines of "I'm glad you called that because your buddy [referring to me] wasn't going to." I'm actually pissed that my partner didn't toss him on that because I had to clean up after him later.

One of your partners has to toss him on this. You could have, too, but for neither of your partners to get this would cause me to have a spirited conversation in the locker room.

You're in South Carolina, right? Coach will sit at least one game, possibly two since he didn't leave the court in a timely manner.

And despite what football philosophies may be, 99.9% of basketball officials would've canned this coach. You're asking for trouble by not doing so.

SC Official

bisonlj wrote
I was at a game Friday night and the visiting coach took off his coat and threw it on the ground

That's all I need or care to hear. You'd better T this every single time it happens unless you want a call from your assigner or state office once the video of it leaks.

bballref3966

BadNewsRef wrote
It's a personal comment directed at an official. And after already being T'd up, he's taking a chance that comment could send him. That's questioning an official's integrity in my book.

I really wish someone on my crew had the balls to send him on that comment.

SC Official wrote
One of your partners has to toss him on this. You could have, too, but for neither of your partners to get this would cause me to have a spirited conversation in the locker room.

You're in South Carolina, right? Coach will sit at least one game, possibly two since he didn't leave the court in a timely manner.

Yes. Coach told me at halftime that he "has film" of the call that led to his first T. Kinda want him to send it to Columbia so they can see his childish behavior.

Adam

Rich wrote
"You're crazy" is personal. It's a technical in basketball and 15 in football. In baseball it's an ejection.

Standing and stomping in disgust after getting a technical already? Good bye.

This.

And yes, the partner should have rung him up with the comment made to him.

One of the partners should have rung him up for stomping, but since they didn't, the OP was right in doing so.

bisonlj

I checked with local basketball official and he said jacket on court = T and jacket on bench = no T. "You're crazy" would be ignored...don't have rabbit ears.

Nothing wrong with how you handle it in your area. Just sharing how one local official would handle it here.

Adam

bballref3966 wrote
Yes. Coach told me at halftime that he "has film" of the call that led to his first T. Kinda want him to send it to Columbia so they can see his childish behavior.

Might have tossed him here, hard to say.

Adam

bisonlj wrote
I checked with local basketball official and he said jacket on court = T and jacket on bench = no T. "You're crazy" would be ignored...don't have rabbit ears.

Nothing wrong with how you handle it in your area. Just sharing how one local official would handle it here.

Your local basketball contact doesn't know what rabbit ears means. A coach talking to you, yelling, from across the court, is not rabbit ears by even the most generous definition.

There are local officials everywhere who are afraid of coaches and won't make this call. They're wrong, IMO.