Staying In Our Primary
 

During my crew's post-game the other night my partner wasn't happy that I'd called a foul in his PCA.

What happened was I was the lead during the play, and a player for Team A had the ball on the opposite post and was looking to go up for a shot. There was no match-up on the post on my side of the lane, and I didn't want to rotate to the other side as I thought it was too late and could lead to problems should a rebound by the defense turn into a fast-break going the other way.

Anyway, I see the player attempt a shot on the opposite post and get fouled. I wait a tick, my partner has nothing, so I blow my whistle and call a foul.

Now... it wasn't in my PCA. However, I'm positive the player was fouled. I did what I thought was right and gave my partner the first shot at the foul, before calling it myself.

During the post-game my partner was a little upset, and went on to say that one assignor told him "I'd rather you miss a call than call something out of your primary." Yes, my partner said that was verbatim from the assignor.

I have a big problem with that mentality. My job, and the job of officials, is to make the game fair. And by passing on a call that we know is right, just because it's a little outside our own PCA, seems ridiculous. It sounds like the assignor doesn't want to make the other official look bad, meaning he's putting our egos ahead of the game.

Does that sound right to you?

He's upset cause you called a foul on a post player going to the hoop as the L?

Sure, it's technically in his primary, but if we expect the C to get every one of those, it's going to be a long night. If the shooter's fouled on the arm and the play opens to the L, why wouldn't the lead get it?

If you can't get over, pinch the paint and get the best open look you can.

More often than not, we miss the call out of our PCA. If you think your partner didn't see the contact you called, go get it. If you're sure he saw it and just didn't make the call, there's a good chance he saw it differently and considered it incidental.

I always tell my partner(s) I'd rather get the call right versus bruising my ego...Now I do have a problem with a partner calling a garden variety foul way outside his primary and right in front of me, but as you describe it sounds like it was a reasonable one to grab (especially considering you waited a count) based on the position of the play on the court (not way outside your primary on the opposite block).

I wonder if that assignor would have the same mentality if there was a punch/shove/FF in your partner's primary that he didn't call but the other members of the crew saw and didn't grab and that led to a fight??

I guess that's a call that can be passed on as it's outside your primary based on that assignor's logic...

This isn't so much about whether me calling it was right. I 100% believe I did the right thing. This is about an assignor basically saying that the official's ego is more important.

And for the record, he's only talking about "normal" fouls... not something worthy of a technical, intentional, or flagrant.

My post + this one.

If it's one where you're guessing, then obviously you're trusting the primary official and his judgment. But if you work to get an open look and see a foul, go get it.

One thing I had reinforced in a camp last summer was that it's better to not rotate and pinch the paint and get an open look than to rotate late and have everything pass before your eyes. If you can't get over, you still have to officiate that play where a post player on the opposite block takes it to the hoop. I know others may disagree, but I think it's putting an awful lot on the C to put that play 100% on him just because of some invisible lines on a court.

But if you're not closed down and in position (and you should be) then you're reaching way to far and should lay off it.

Agreed. Another way to look at it is if C could see it, then you leave it alone. If C couldn't see it, then you get it.

And, yes, some assigners have the opinion expressed. It is, imo, an over-reaction to some things that happened in some high-profile games.

We are hired as a crew to referee the game. Coaches and administrators couldn't care less about primaries if a call is missed. Primaries are a mechanism designed to ensure the right official is looking at the play most of the time so that we get most plays right most of the time. Some times, plays happen that are not well covered by primaries and good officials will cover each other's back to get the play right.

As others have said, there are right times to go out of your primary and there are wrong times. Are you judging a play differently than your partner when they could see what you saw or are do you see something they couldn't have seen. If the former, leave it alone. If the latter, go get it.

I've never worked 3-man, and will likely never do so. But I do like to learn, so here's my question: how do you know what a partner saw or could see? That is, how do you know when to pass and when not?

If it's out of my PCA, I'll avoid anything that could be deemed marginal. I'll only go get fouls that are, from my perspective OBVIOUS and NECESSARY. Like others have said, don't guess. Of course, sometimes the ability of your partner may require adjusting what you will or won't call as well.

Primaries are guidelines, not impenetrable boundaries. I think they should be drawn with more overlap.

Ask your assignor or send a clip. If he says lay off of fouls out of your area, then so be it (or don't take those games).

There's a reason why there's two (or three) officials, and until I can see 360 degrees around a match-up, I'm always thanking my partner for getting a foul i couldn't see.

Bryan, knowing the same assignors as you're likely talking about, i'd be EXTREMELY surprised if they said it anywhere close to the hard and fast rule implied by your partner.

How do you know in two-person?

Same answer.

I'm trying to think of a good official that thinks you should miss a call before calling out of your primary. I can't.

If someone calls a foul or violation in my primary I do one of two things-- I thank them or when we get to the locker room, I will ask them what they saw and tell them what I saw. From there it's over.

Why anybody would get into arguments or get heated about it is beyond me.

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The Trinity Of Calling Outside One's Primary Coverage Area ...
 

In regard to calling out of our primary, we are taught to: Be a little late (give your partner a chance to make the call). Be right (100% sure, not just 90% sure). Be needed (ant versus elephant).

exactly what i do too.

My philosophy on calling out of my PCA, is that it has to be a call that as a crew we need to get AND my partner had NO look at it. On grey area call, which I would consider this one, it's fair game. Get it right.

I agree staying within your primary is a good thing to try to do. Sometimes a call may be passed due to the way your partners called similar plays. Sometimes however I feel if you know that you know and it was a big enough foul then go get it. Our rules interp always talks about whales and minnows. If it was a hard (whale) foul get it. If it was a touch foul (minnow) let it be. I understand that philosophy but I also feel sometimes you know the c couldn't have had a good look so you get it.

I guess the bottom line for me is you need to trust your partners. When you do that you find your self reaching WAY less.

I literally do the exact same thing. I thank them when I know I got screened or straightlined on the play. I ask them if I "thought" I had something different. And even if I had something different, I want them to call things they clearly see.

Peace

Nothing irks me more than seeing a play clearly and deciding not to blow the whistle and then having a partner come override my decision by blowing his.

I've often asked why the judgment that the action is illegal by one official takes precedence over a judgment that it was legal by another.

I just assume the person saw something I didn't. Takes a lot to get me irked on a court. Last time was when a partner ignored my inbounds spots cause he was too lazy to take the ball to them.

You must get pissed off a lot then, that's a pretty common occurrence. :eek:

I have to agree with Nevada, and that doesn't usually come easy. I always pregame that if you have to reach into a primary then 2 things MUST be true

1. It's a call we have to get
AND
2. I don't have a look

IOW if I see my partner can see through both players and has a great look the only thing we can help with is a missed travel/violation. My philosophy is that if I have a good look and didn't blow the whistle it's for a reason.

I was imagining a call that needed to be made and my assigner asking why I didn't call it. "It wasn't in my primary" isn't going to fly. Say... an obvious air-ball on a free throw by 5 feet and for some unknown reason the T/C don't get it. I'll call it as the L. Shouldn't ever happen, just sayin'.

Completely agree. Not only 100% sure, but also a call that needs to be made.

There is a difference, as far as i am concerned, with violations and fouls. One has to do with judgement and the other with black/white distinction. Missing a violation to me is more egregious as a call/no-call based on judgement, especially if your argument is "I didn't want to reach."

If this response had a "Like" button I would click on it.
Plus, crew review of the video will confirm the validity of the out-of-primary whistle.
Aren't these expressions of support for the occasional "going out of primary" nothing more than an acknowledgement of the validity of the principles of "Secondary Coverage Area"?
Case in point from this past Saturday night -- verified as a great "come and get it" whistle from out of primary: Competitive matchup in the lane for which both Lead and Center were straightlined. Having pregamed this, the Trail who had an unobstructed view of the slot between players comes in with the needed call. And yes it was needed and both L and C appreciated it, given they each would have had nothing but a guess.
Monty McCutchen speaks of the 90/10 rule (my words for it). 90% of the time, we trust that our partner has a good look at what goes on there in his primary and is able to take care of business there and we don't really need to trump his call or no-call. But maybe about 10% of the time for whatever reason (straightlined, brain fart, distractions in PCA, etc.) a partner can be there with a late whistle to help out when a call is missed. And that's ok. Maybe he proportions aren't just right, but the principle seems sound.
This, of course, is waaaaaaaay different than that kind of hideous ballwatching that leads to unjustified whistles where they just plain don't belong.
Nice thread. :)

This would irk just about anyone, but sometimes we all need help on big calls. Every official has had a play in their PCA where for some reason they had a horrible look and were grateful a partner came out with a whistle. Perhaps I should say should. I can think of one official that doesn't want you calling in his PCA for any reason no matter what even if he's convulsing on the floor. Dude also whines he can't get post-season games or rarely ever gets a 4A+ game.

My $0.02.

1) Unless you heard this directly from your assigner himself and/or know the exact context in which he made this statement I would take it with a grain of salt, even if the claims to be quoting your assinger "verbatim."

2) I'll defer to your judement on it "being too late" to rotate over but I have found that when there is a post player with the ball on the other side of the block I have regretted not going 10 X more than I have ever regretted going. I would say work on getting over there quicker and go.

And I think any of us would be bothered by someone consistently calling in our PCA but that shouldnt really ever happen.

Generally, as others have said, if someone comes and gets something then I either thank thim b/c I didnt see it for whatever reason OR if I think I had a really good look I will just ask them what they saw.

It is your primary coverage area not your exclusive coverage area.

So what's your take on staying in your primary? Didn't perfectly follow what you were saying.

There is more latitude with violations than fouls when going outside the PCA. A violation either happened or it didn't as there is no judgement. With a foul, contact either happened or it didn't, however that does not determine if a foul occurred.

That's A Mouthful ...
 

This thread reminded me of a lake in Webster, Massachusetts, Lake Chargoggagoggmanchauggagoggchabunagungamaugg. Translated from Nipmuc, an Algonquian language, "You fish on your side, I'll fish on my side, and nobody fish in the middle". Of course, that wouldn't work very well in a basketball game.

Bingo. We have Primary Coverage Areas (PCA's) but we should look outside the PCA when we have nothing to officiate there, and provide Secondary coverage. It certainly gives the play a look from a different angle, and often it can be a BETTER angle.

This specifically applies IMO to the "C" postion. Who has a unique angle that the "L" and "T" do not have.

Whether you should extend beyond your primary area depends a lot on your ability as an official. Newer officials should really focus on staying in their primary. As we progress in ability, we develop the ability to determine which calls need to be made and which ones can be passed on. We also develop an understanding of just when our distance judgment might be off.

Why would it be unique to C only. Unless the T and L and standing in the same spot, each will have just as unique of a angle on any given play.

The video of the end of the Georgia Southern vs App State game is a prime example of what I said here. Look at what the T and C do on the play, their positioning, their angles of view, and from where the try is attempted.

The video is posted on ESPN.com, but perhaps one of our video guys can post it here.