Home and visitor book not matching
 

I'm a parent volunteer for the boys Freshmen team. Working the scoreboard/clock recently when the HBook and VBook were not on the same page. My team is home. HBook has playerX getting his 5th foul early into the 4th quarter. VBook shows only 4 for that player. They have not been matching up the fouls all game (which rarely, if ever, happens on our Freshman table - we're lucky if the VBook is even there).
A huge blow up occurs between the 2 scorers, with the VBook incredulous that it's correct and the home book is "clueless." Now both books are arguing back and forth, and it's causing a scene and I can't hear the referee on the court - game is continuing to be played. Finally, I had enough and after a made basket I hit the horn a few times to get the R to stop play and come to the table.
Was it ok to hit the horn then (as opposed to a true dead ball) to have the R come to the table and settle this? Also, does the VBook have any say in the situation at all, if Hbook is sure he's correct and no one else has any reason to question him?

First, yes, hit the horn during a dead ball (like after a made basket) to get the R to the table. If nothing else, you needed to get him involved because you couldn't hear them.

Second, unless there's reason to doubt the home book, I'm going with what it says. I'm not sure I could define "reason to doubt" here, though, because it would depend largely on the specific situation.

At least in central Ohio (at work, don't have my book handy to verify the rule), we're told the home book is the official book.

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If H book has a player with his 5th foul, then the official should be so notified and the issue discovered / addressed then. You (the books) might be able to figure out that either that foul or the one just prior was posted to the wrong player (in one book or the other).

If the issue goes back more than that, it's unlikely to be resolved -- especially at the Frosh level -- and you have to go with the H book.

You are a part of the official crew, so yes, you need to be able to do your duties unencumbered so as long as you pick an appropriate time to halt play, you done good to buzz and get the ref over to help settle things.

How did the ref resolve this between the squabblers? Any threats of moving the V book off the table?

Thanks for the replies... R came over, did great. Calmly asked the VBook what his problem was, then asked the HBook. Asked HBook if he was sure he was correct? HBook said yes and that was it. HBook was official. The VBook only gave the scorer, and I, the "screw you" look a few more times the rest of the game. :)

See, told you that you ARE a full-fledged member of the official crew! :D

Was He Really One of the Eagles with Glenn Frey?
 

Never would this have been tolerated back when "The Eagle" was at the table assisting the floor officials!
:)

BTW, I wonder where he landed?

Unless I can find the mistake or the reason there is a mistake, I am going with the home book (official book) all the time. If we can find the mistake that was made in the home book, then we will adjust. This is something the book people should have raised our attention about much earlier than when the 5 fouls occurred.

Peace

Ha ha. Thanks. I'm feel like I've been initiated into a special club now. :D

This is hilarious. Great post.

And Please Don't Say Eagle Three Times ...
 

Please don't tempt fate.

Yep! CHSeagle! Classic!

Typically, we consider the home book the official record, but it's not necessarily so. Note Rule 2-4-3: "The referee shall designate the official scorebook and official scorer prior to the scheduled starting time of the game." I seem to recall, years ago, the rules did provide for the home book as official, but that may simply be my aging, faulty memory.

I work a lot of games below the varsity level, in middle school or junior high, where it is not unusual to have students working the book and clock. On rare occasions, where the home scorer is a novice and the visitor has some experience, I've designated the visitor's book as official. In any event, I always remind both scorers to check score and fouls constantly so we can catch any discrepancies promptly.

I had one BV occassion where i go to check the book before the game started and the home book was completely only half done and the scorekeeper no where in sight. The visiting book was complete and their scorer was there and ready to go. I chatted with her for 1 minute and my confidence in her (mostly for being there and ready) was higher than the home book so I made the V book the official book. The home scorer returns with about 3 minutes to tip off and when we go to meet the coaches says something along the lines of the book is ready if you want to check it. I told him no need that the V book was the designated official book for the game.

He was upset and told the HC who then questioned my decision. As the HC started talking I told him I can make the H book the official book but then There will be an administrative T against his team for the book not being ready in time. Can you guess which book was the official book for the game?

The book doesn't need to be ready in time. The teams just need to give the information to the scorer(s) in time. And, since the V book was complete, my guess is that the teams complied with that.

2-11-11. Home book shall be official…unless R rules otherwise.

I thought it was once mandatory. But I'm even older than MTD and I don't have an attic where I keep old rule books, so I could be wrong.

I was thinking deecee may have said that only because he wanted the v-book to be official, but that too may be a bad idea because it gives the coach wrong information for the future.

At the time I misspoke and we also dodged another contentious moment in that the information that the V scorer copied had the correct starters. IF that wasn't the case I could see any hope of communication with the H coach would have probably ended there for the game.

If V is designated "official" and V mis-copies the starters, then that's still not an issue.

(Well, it's not a T. It can lead to an issue if H now doesn't trust V.)

IF the starters were never given to them because V just went to the H book and copied what they had and looked to a previous game that had the starters listed and used that?

Well, that's different from the previous scenario (or the assumptions made in the previous scenario). And it doesn't matter whether it's the H book or the V book.

I agree.

Yes. It's simple, give the books a minute to go through everything and see if they can find the discrepancy. If they cannot, go with the official book and tell the other book to update to match the official book. If you really care that much you can check with the team benches to see if they have a second coach or something keeping stats as well but that is a little too complicated IMO.

Why? Isn't all you have to do is say "that's the official book, and that's what matters"? I would think since the other book is un-official, you would not instruct them to do anything.

You are saying you would allow both books to continue with a discrepancy?

The book that's not official means nothing. Once I make a decision that we're sticking with what the home book says, it's up to the V book to match up; but I'm not holding up the game while they do it.