Backcourt Violation?
 

From OU/Iowa St last night

https://vimeo.com/152235807

Not sure if the college rule is the same as highschool? If so, looks like the C missed this one.

(Bilas can be annoying, but if this was in fact a miss, have to give him credit for saying right away that OU never possessed the ball in the frontcourt.)

Also just wondering mechanic: is this the C's call all the way? It looks like the L is holding the division line, perhaps to make the call too.

EDIT: YOU CAN SKIP TO 1:00 IN THE VIDEO to see the slo-mo replay.

Looks to me like #24 actually gets possession via the start of his dribble while standing in the FC, then proceeds to dribble into the BC.

Violation.

Does the ball not need to have FC status?

the ball gets FC status as soon as it touches the player with FC status (#24).

And I missed the initial save, which actually was what generated TC here.

Looks to me like OU gained control when he grabbed the ball and threw it off of the ISU player. OU needs only to establish FC location for the ball, which happens when #24 touches it without FC location. Once he goes into the BC it's a violation.

I ran this back last night, because I thought it was missed, but it was a great call--possession occurred in the backcourt, then touch with frontcourt status occurred, then was first to touch after ball regained backcourt status.

Saw a grainier video of this earlier and though it was an excellent call. Seeing this one with the clearer slow motion view; I know the C nailed it.

TH needs to repost his BC quiz.

OK so is it the same for high school?

I guess what's tripping me up is I'd thought NFHS you need all three things (ball and both feet) in the FC before you have FC status.

Thanks!

Was he ever dribbling in the backcourt?

Yes, BC rules are exactly the same as far as I can tell all both genders in the NCAA an the NF Rules.

Three points or things applies to a dribble from the BC to the FC to gain FC status. The ball gains FC status by touching something in the FC like a player, floor or object that is considered in the FC.

The ball is touched by a player that is completely in the FC (it is not a plane) and that is why his dribble to the BC makes this a violation.

Peace

Yes it's the same rule. Read the "3-points" rule very closely -- does it always apply? ;)

Backcourt Violation
 

How does the player saving the ball from going out of bounds create TC here? He shows no control over the ball, he is just the first to touch it.

He grabs it and throws it -- how is that NOT control?

It looks to me like he grabs it and throws it back. He doesn't need to hold it for any specified period of time to establish team control. Had he batted the ball, I'd be discussing why I think #24 actually did establish PC (and thus TC) when he started his dribble with two feet in the FC.

Exactly.

Put my vote down in the violation column.

Tom Eades is a great official. Got to watch him from the front row behind the table at a game a few years ago. He's one of the best.

It's judgment, to be sure. And again we're on the "would you have granted TO?" question (or in NCAA, would you reset the shot clock?)

Throw=TC/PC
Bat= no control

I was watching on a smaller screen and it did not look like he caught it. watched it on my big screen. Thanks.

Looks like he clearly caught the ball and threw it off of white to save it. But the second player in red who touches the ball seems to be the start of a dribble. Would the 3 points rule (two feet and the ball required for a dribbler to obtain front court status) not apply? If the touch is a dribble, then the ball retains backcourt status, no? Is college rule different than NFHS?

If the 3 points rule doesn't apply here than it was a great call by the official.

I ask again:

As an observer of basketball, I would say yes ... until the official blows the whistle, that was all he (#24) did was dribble the ball -- all 3 dribbles were in the backcourt until the official blew the whistle.

But what an observer sees isn't always how the rule is applied which is why I ask. I guess it is a question can you immediately become a dribbler on first touch of the ball. I'm not aware of a case/rule that speaks to this one way or another although there may be one.

A player is not dribbling while slapping the ball during a jump ball, when a pass rebounds from his/her hand, when he/she fumbles, or when he/she bats a rebound or pass away from other players who are attempting to get it. The player is not in control under these conditions.

Yes you can be a dribbler on first touch of the ball but not always.

The three points rule only applies on a dribbler going from back to front court. It does not apply in this situation.

In this case his first touch is in the front court (feet in the front court, ball in the air), his next is in the back court. I'm of the opinion that even if team control was not established with the red team player saving the ball (I believe it was), team control and player control was established when the first touch occurred as that was the start of his dribble.

In my view, he dribbled from FC to BC. Since he started with FC status, 3 points does not apply.

I've enjoyed watching this about ten times. Not because it was the right or wrong call, but because Eades was so acutely aware of the sequence of events that he was able to process the try, the establishment of team control, ball location and player location…all pretty much in the blink of an eye, and then put air in the whistle. How many of us would have passed and simply said, "I wasn't sure so I couldn't call it."

Hell of a call in that context.


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