Which Ref Is Correct?

[Dad]

Originally Posted by SAK

While I think that the trail got the play wrong, it appears to be a JV game and these officials should be on this site. There was enough time and distance for the defender to avoid contact but she decided to plow through the legal screen. Despite getting the play wrong, it needed a whistle and good job by the trail for saying with what he had to avoid a double foul.

With that said this is a mess. The ball in in bounded to the back court. There should have been a back court count, unless this is one of the states where they use NCAA rules for a high school game. Secondly the body language needs to be addressed. The lead, who had no business looking where at this play hits his whistle three times, seems to upstage the trail. Its just bad and if he had a different opinion they should have talked about it AWAY FROM THE COACHES. In addition there was no signal from anyone. Add to that that this player fouled out the officals need to look at the rule book for how to handle a player who fouls out. Inform the coach and then the player in that order. If you can have a non-calling official do this so that things don't get out of had with the coach especially if there is any doubt that the play was called correctly. The C should do that in this case because he is the only one that did not have any input on the play. Finally I cannot stress enough, have the conversation away from table staff, players, and coaches. These people are not your friends and this could cause an excited coach to cause him/herself to earn a T. Stay out of that situation.

Edit (forgot) if the lead has something different, why the heck he was looking there I cannot say, there would have to be a double foul because the foul was already reported to the table. This is another reason to officiate your primary. I would not want to have to explain this to a supervisor when he/she asked who was refereeing my primary (assuming I was the lead)

If you think these officials should be on the site, then most of these points are moot. Trail is new and not going to have strong mechanics. T handled the play well and cleared it up.

I'd explain this to a supervisor with zero problems. Everyone was confused and he wanted to make sure everyone was on the same page. You have no idea where he was looking and to top it off watching your primary doesn't mean your blind to everything else in the gym.

[Rich]

Moot.

(Twice in one week.)

[Dad]

Originally Posted by Rich

Moot.

(Twice in one week.)

Thanks

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by Rich

Moot.

(Twice in one week.)

What is moot?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

What is moot?

I certain person on this topic said, "mute" when meaning "moot." They have since changed their reasonable mistake.

Peace

[SAK]

Originally Posted by Adam

Are you talking about the Lead? I'm pretty sure all he did was clarify the T's call since there was so much confusion. Judging by the rest of the action (offensive coach's reactions, table holding up 5 as soon as he does his walk-by report) in the video, T called the defender for the foul from the start. No one knew but him right away because he pointed the wrong way.

I'm guessing he's a relatively new official. This is clearly summer or fall ball judging by the team waiting behind the bench with the bleachers pushed in. The L was likely the veteran official here.

We've all been there with a newer partner who just doesn't have good mechanics yet. The guy made the right call, he just got the mechanics wrong.

I was assuming this was a jv game and that is the varsity team getting ready

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

What is moot?

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[ODog]

Originally Posted by SAK

I was assuming this was a jv game and that is the varsity team getting ready

I concur. Plus there are other officials standing by behind the visiting bench.

But ... 3-man for JV girls? I'm impressed. What state is this?

[SAK]

Originally Posted by ODog

I concur. Plus there are other officials standing by behind the visiting bench.

But ... 3-man for JV girls? I'm impressed. What state is this?

I agree. But what better way to learn the system

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[ODog]

Originally Posted by SAK

But what better way to learn the system

No doubt. I think it's terrific, and great that the schools have it in their budgets to extend that down to lower levels.

It appears this is Arvin (Calif.) High School. So props to the Golden State!

[Dad]

Originally Posted by ODog

I concur. Plus there are other officials standing by behind the visiting bench.

But ... 3-man for JV girls? I'm impressed. What state is this?

I'm always a little shocked there are states that don't 3-man the majority of JV games.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Dad

I'm always a little shocked there are states that don't 3-man the majority of JV games.

Here in the Constitution State, I have never officiated, observed, or heard about a three person junior varsity game. I've officiated one three person game in my thirty-five year career. Here in my little corner of the state, 99% of our regular season varsity games are two person, and only one league will request three officials for it's league finals, and that's not a given every year for both genders. State tournament games are not three person until the quarterfinal round.

Why? Maybe it's about money, or lack of training, or the number of officials needed on a nightly basis, but it's mainly due to the fact that the most powerful coaches in the state coaches association are fearful that more fouls will be called, they don't want three officials, and the state high school interscholastic sports governing body does what the coaches lobby wants.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Dad

I'm always a little shocked there are states that don't 3-man the majority of JV games.

It is simply a cost issue for the schools or conferences. Not saying that is a good reason, but you might not find many officials qualified to work those games and you will not have schools willing to pay an extra check a game for a lower level game.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by SAK

I was assuming this was a jv game and that is the varsity team getting ready



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Originally Posted by ODog

I concur. Plus there are other officials standing by behind the visiting bench.

But ... 3-man for JV girls? I'm impressed. What state is this?

1. The bleachers are nearly always pulled out for varsity games, well before time. I've literally never seen a varsity game with one half of the gym closed off for spectators like this. It's an off season set up.

2. Varsity officials never stand behind the benches in the moments before their game starts. Again, that screams off-season ball to me.

3. Unrelated because of #1 and #2, but we do 3 for large school JV in my area.

[SAK]

Originally Posted by Dad

If you think these officials should be on the site, then most of these points are mute. Trail is new and not going to have strong mechanics. T handled the play well and cleared it up.

I'd explain this to a supervisor with zero problems. Everyone was confused and he wanted to make sure everyone was on the same page. You have no idea where he was looking and to top it off watching your primary doesn't mean your blind to everything else in the gym.

While it does not mean that you are blind to the rest of the gym I would have a hard time going that far out of my area to reach for a call. To make that call I would have to be 100% sure or more.

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[Dad]

Originally Posted by SAK

While it does not mean that you are blind to the rest of the gym I would have a hard time going that far out of my area to reach for a call. To make that call I would have to be 100% sure or more.

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I really don't think he was reaching for a call. The table was holding up for what looks like 5 fouls before the lead even comes in. Looks like the call stood to me and it was just the initial reaction by the coach, player, and mechanics of the trail which caused the lead to come over.