Ball-handlers / Freedom of Movement

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by johnnyg08

I've worked two boys games so far and in those games they cheated until we called them and we called them early. Then if they cheated again it was because they were tired.

Hopefully the players continue to adjust.

How did they cheat?

As for freedom of movement in my HS games, the coaches haven't been complaining when we call it on their teams. Apparently the VHSL has gotten the message across to them about what to expect, now it's just a matter of the players catching on.

[crosscountry55]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

As for freedom of movement in my HS games, the coaches haven't been complaining when we call it on their teams. Apparently the VHSL has gotten the message across to them about what to expect, now it's just a matter of the players catching on.

I've noticed the same. VHSL = no surprises. But some of the non-VHSL games I do (VISAA, HRAC, etc.) = not so much. So like Rich was saying, we're calling the fouls in those games and some (not all) of the coaches are shocked. Had one chirping about a 9-4 foul count the other night, but the thing is we talked about the renewed emphasis on FOM via Rule 10-6 at the pre-game coaches conference! And his team didn't get it. So I politely reminded him about it, later I had to warn him, and as he was walking to the locker room at halftime....well let's just say we started the 3rd quarter with free throws. He still won by 21. Not on my Christmas card list.

On a more general note, two-hands is an easy black-and-white call (seen lots of those, usually when a defender starts to get beat and panics), and I've seen a few extended arm bars. But I haven't noticed to much hand-checking (hot stove or maintained hand). Seems like the players are only getting half of the message.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

I've noticed the same. VHSL = no surprises. But some of the non-VHSL games I do (VISAA, HRAC, etc.) = not so much. So like Rich was saying, we're calling the fouls in those games and some (not all) of the coaches are shocked. Had one chirping about a 9-4 foul count the other night, but the thing is we talked about the renewed emphasis on FOM via Rule 10-6 at the pre-game coaches/captains conference! And his team didn't get it. So I politely reminded him about it, later I had to warn him, and as he was walking to the locker room at halftime....well let's just say we started the 3rd quarter with free throws. He still won by 21. Not on my Christmas card list.

On a more general note, two-hands is an easy black-and-white call (seen lots of those, usually when a defender starts to get beat and panics), and I've seen a few extended arm bars. But I haven't noticed too much hand-checking (hot stove or maintained hand). Seems like the players are only getting half of the message.

I fixed those for you.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

State semi-finals in football this weekend but pubic public school basketball started on Nov. 30th, private schools started a 2 weeks before that.

And one for you too.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by crosscountry55

... but the thing is we talked about the renewed emphasis on FOM via Rule 10-6 at the pre-game coaches conference! And his team didn't get it. ....

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

I fixed those for you.


And one for you too.

And what did you fix? What was wrong with what cc55 originally posted?

[Kansas Ref]

From my perch: After working 5 games so far, I've called more fouls on post-play defense this season that ever before. For one reason, the POE's regarding post-play have changed my perspective. Defenders just can't seem to keep two hands on the hips and back of post players who are executing post up and spin moves. Teams are into the bonus FT's earlier in the game than I've seen before due to this.

I watched a NCAA game other night, those refs were calling lots of freedom of movement 'holds' in the post area--lotsa whistles--which is what we all want in the end.

[WhistlesAndStripes]

Originally Posted by Kansas Ref

From my perch: After working 5 games so far, I've called more fouls on post-play defense this season that ever before. For one reason, the POE's regarding post-play have changed my perspective. Defenders just can't seem to keep two hands on the hips and back of post players who are executing post up and spin moves. Teams are into the bonus FT's earlier in the game than I've seen before due to this.

I watched a NCAA game other night, those refs were calling lots of freedom of movement 'holds' in the post area--lotsa whistles--which is what we all want in the end.

Actually, I think that in the end what we REALLY want is the post players to get their hands off.

[johnny d]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

Actually, I think that in the end what we REALLY want is the post players to get their hands off.

Not exactly true. I would imagine many of the fouls Kref saw called in the NCAA game were actually holds. In contrast to NFHS, NCAA-M can have an arm bar pressed into the back of the post player and keep it there even when the post player gets the ball, as long as they are not using that arm bar to dislodge the opponent. Basically, if they are providing resistance rather than causing movement, then they can keep their arm bar. In NFHS, as soon as the post player receives the ball, the defender has to remove the arm bar.

[Kansas Ref]

Originally Posted by Whistles & Stripes

Actually, I think that in the end what we REALLY want is the post players to get their hands off.

*Tru dat W & S: But until the B4's and B5's start playing proper post defense, then we do want all those whistles--keep poppin dat whistle baby!