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-   -   Headwear for religous reasons (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/100442-headwear-religous-reasons.html)

Scratch85 Thu Dec 03, 2015 02:12pm

Headwear for religous reasons
 
3-5-4 Exception b allows for headwear which is attached in such a way that it is highly unlikely it will come off during play.

Is it possible the NFHS equates "highly unlikely" to "guarantees"?

Dad Thu Dec 03, 2015 02:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scratch85 (Post 971535)
3-5-4 Exception b allows for headwear which is attached in such a way that it is highly unlikely it will come off during play.

Is it possible the NFHS equates "highly unlikely" to "guarantees"?

100% not possible.

Scratch85 Thu Dec 03, 2015 03:20pm

One more jewel
 
3-5 (Team Member's Equipment)-8 states: Jewelry is prohibited.

Is it possible the NFHS would still consider it OK for a team member to wear jewelry if they do not become a player?

Dad Thu Dec 03, 2015 03:32pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scratch85 (Post 971544)
3-5 (Team Member's Equipment)-8 states: Jewelry is prohibited.

Is it possible the NFHS would still consider it OK for a team member to wear jewelry if they do not become a player?

Yes. Just can't come into the game with it on.

I've only had one situation like this where a girl refused to wear a proper headband. So she sat on the bench the entire game.

Rob1968 Thu Dec 03, 2015 03:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad (Post 971548)
Yes. Just can't come into the game with it on.

I've only had one situation like this where a girl refused to wear a proper headband. So she sat on the bench the entire game.

My understanding is that a team member must be appropriately attired to participate in warm-ups. Thus, when we arrive on the floor, we check for such items, and through the coach, or team captains, we rectify them, even before the game starts.

bob jenkins Thu Dec 03, 2015 03:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob1968 (Post 971549)
My understanding is that a team member must be appropriately attired to participate in warm-ups. Thus, when we arrive on the floor, we check for such items, and through the coach, or team captains, we rectify them, even before the game starts.

That's correct -- there's a specific case play on this.

Dad Thu Dec 03, 2015 03:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob1968 (Post 971549)
My understanding is that a team member must be appropriately attired to participate in warm-ups. Thus, when we arrive on the floor, we check for such items, and through the coach, or team captains, we rectify them, even before the game starts.

My bad, warm-up is part of the game to me.

crosscountry55 Thu Dec 03, 2015 04:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scratch85 (Post 971535)
3-5-4 Exception b allows for headwear which is attached in such a way that it is highly unlikely it will come off during play.

Is it possible the NFHS equates "highly unlikely" to "guarantees"?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dad (Post 971538)
100% not possible.

Case in point. Had boys games on Tuesday in which the visiting school was a Jewish academy. Like the Northwestern player who made headlines last year, they all adorned yarmulkes. Very obviously for religious reasons, so no issue whatsoever. In two whole games, only one player had his yarmulke slip off one time. After a rebound, I blew it dead, he put it back on, and off we went. No big deal.

I did, however, make a bunch of starters go to the locker room to remove their unauthorized t-shirts, which I didn't get to observe until right before the game when their warmup shirts came off. Coach had my back because he had told them and they didn't listen.

Anyway, so here's a question. We had to start the game with some non-designated starters because some of the starters were "unavailable" while in the locker room removing their t-shirts. The coach didn't choose to change a designated starter.....I told him that some of his starters couldn't play until they were legally equipped. So I didn't penalize. Correct action or not?

Scratch85 Thu Dec 03, 2015 04:07pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 971550)
That's correct -- there's a specific case play on this.

3.5 SIT B in the 14-15 Case book, 3.5 SIT A in the 15-16 Case book.

I have always made players on the court remove jewelry when I notice it, whether during warm-ups or actual game time. And I feel like I understand the rule. I realize there is no penalty. They just cannot participate until they rectify the situation.

However, I am only 99% sure that the NFHS would agree with me that jewelry is prohibited as Team Member's equipment and therefore, not considered OK even if they do not become a player. That 1% has me questioning.

bob jenkins Thu Dec 03, 2015 05:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by crosscountry55 (Post 971553)
Anyway, so here's a question. We had to start the game with some non-designated starters because some of the starters were "unavailable" while in the locker room removing their t-shirts. The coach didn't choose to change a designated starter.....I told him that some of his starters couldn't play until they were legally equipped. So I didn't penalize. Correct action or not?

(In the spirit of teaching to fish) -- what does the rule on changing starters say? (3-2 or something like that). It's pretty clear.

BillyMac Thu Dec 03, 2015 05:49pm

Let's Go To The Videotape ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Scratch85 (Post 971554)
3.5 SIT B ...

3.5 SITUATION B: The officials are on the court prior to the game observing the
team warm-ups. One official notices that a member of Team A is wearing a decorative
necklace. RULING: The official should inform the team member to remove
the jewelry immediately. Upon compliance, the team member may continue to
warm up with his or her teammates and may start the game without penalty.

Obviously, from the casebook play, we don't let them warm up with jewelry, it's a safety issue.

The casebook citation (above) is for 3-5: Team Member’s Equipment, Apparel, it's not just for jewelry.

How about letting then warm up with an illegal color undershirt?

It's not a safety issue, it's an equipment fashion issue.

ODog Thu Dec 03, 2015 09:30pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 971566)
3.5 SITUATION B: ... The official should inform the team member to remove the jewelry immediately ...

Leave it to the NFHS to perpetuate the "must remove" approach as opposed to the "inform they can't play with" approach.

BigCat Thu Dec 03, 2015 09:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by crosscountry55 (Post 971553)
Case in point. Had boys games on Tuesday in which the visiting school was a Jewish academy. Like the Northwestern player who made headlines last year, they all adorned yarmulkes. Very obviously for religious reasons, so no issue whatsoever. In two whole games, only one player had his yarmulke slip off one time. After a rebound, I blew it dead, he put it back on, and off we went. No big deal.

I did, however, make a bunch of starters go to the locker room to remove their unauthorized t-shirts, which I didn't get to observe until right before the game when their warmup shirts came off. Coach had my back because he had told them and they didn't listen.

Anyway, so here's a question. We had to start the game with some non-designated starters because some of the starters were "unavailable" while in the locker room removing their t-shirts. The coach didn't choose to change a designated starter.....I told him that some of his starters couldn't play until they were legally equipped. So I didn't penalize. Correct action or not?

3-2-2a. A starter with illegal equipment/apparel can be changed without penalty.

crosscountry55 Thu Dec 03, 2015 10:57pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCat (Post 971584)
3-2-2a. A starter with illegal equipment/apparel can be changed without penalty.

Sweet! I was pretty sure I didn't kick the rule, but not 100%.

See, to all newer officials out there who read this thread, this is why you read through the rule book at least once per year, if not more often. You may not always have your book available to consult, and you may not always have sections and articles memorized verbatim, but that little voice in your head will usually lead you to the right answer because you've comprehended it before.

grunewar Fri Dec 04, 2015 07:26am

Just Curious
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by crosscountry55 (Post 971553)
Like the Northwestern player who made headlines last year, they all adorned yarmulkes. Very obviously for religious reasons, so no issue whatsoever. In two whole games, only one player had his yarmulke slip off one time. After a rebound, I blew it dead, he put it back on, and off we went. No big deal.

Oft times, a yamulke is kept in place by using a bobby pin. How were they kept in place so efficiently?


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