NCAA fashion police?
 

Does NCAA have same rules regarding tights/sleeves/headbands etc? Guys for Duke tonight have white leg sleeves/tights and Thornton has on a blue arm sleeve??

Since the crew is Mike Eades, Roger Ayres, and a guy I recognize but don't know, I assume they would get it right. It just looks very weird. I would also be interested to know how the NBA addresses this. I know a lot of rule changes filter downward and didn't know if this was one of them


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The third official is Ed Corbett


I wish I had a cool signature

Arm sleeves • Must be a solid color. • May be black, white, beige or any color contained in the game jersey. • Teammates must wear the same color arm sleeves.

Leg/Knee sleeves • Must be a solid color. • May be black, white, beige or the same color as the majority color of the game pants (as determined by the color/neutral zone of the game jersey. • Knee pads (i.e., volleyball-type pads) are considered knee sleeves for the purpose of the rule. • Teammates must wear the same color leg/knee sleeves.

Undergarments (tights) • May extend below the game shorts and must be the same color as the majority color of the game shorts (as determined by the neutral zone of the game jersey), white, black or beige. • All teammates must wear the same color.

these are ncaa-m rule as recently posted by art hyland. as you can see, all tights must be same color. all leg sleeves must be same color. all arm sleeves must be same color. but tights, leg sleeves and arm sleeves do not have to be the same color. without seeing duke uniforms, they could have players wearing black tights, white leg sleeves, and blue arm sleeves and be legal.

Thanks!!!! That was what I was looking for


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Proud To Wear The NFHS Fashion Police Badge ...
 

I never thought that I would ever being saying this, but thank God for the simpler (with exception for the ambiguous compression shorts rule) NFHS fashion rules: headbands, wristbands, arm sleeves, knee sleeves, lower leg sleeves, and tights, shall be the solid color black, white, beige, or the predominant color of the jersey, and the same color for each item, and all participants.

Simpler, yes, but a pain in the ass to enforce. We've already had a team wearing what would've been legal last year -- all wearing black headbands and white leg sleeves. Not our fault, of course, but something I wish we just didn't have to deal with. Watching a team scramble with less than 15 minutes before game time looking for white headbands or prewrap puts all the focus on that nonsense and not the game itself. And of course we're the bad guys -- cause the JV crew let them do the exact same thing just minutes before.

Scramble???? Too bad. 99.99% of these sleeves etc are not for medical reasons. Therefore, shouldn't be a big deal for them to ditch them. My biggest struggle is enforcing the rule at middle school level bc some of our city schools play by a modified rule set regarding turbo clock etc and every coach thinks that gives them carte blanche to ignore other rules as well


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Sadly at the college level the fashion police is not as high a priority as we make it here on the HS level.

Who CARES if they're for medical reasons? They're legal to use.

Don't get it twisted on me. I could care less what kids wear, except for dangerous items. I know there could be a point of making a mockery of the uniform which is why we have standards but it gets old talking about it every year. My OP was more about it actually standing out to me last night in the Duke game as the guys had different colors on.

Does the NBA have a rule set on this? I don't watch it at all and can't really find a source online on my phone


I wish I had a cool signature

I think what he is saying is, they could just take the sleeves off to make everything match, and since most are wearing them for a medical reason, taking them off is an easy fix.

Taking off the headbands was a quicker fix.

All the headbands matched. All the sleeves matched. Like we told the coach, this was legal last year -- now it's not.

The lower the level the less I nit about these types of rules.

I know. And I want to as well but I worry, though I don't know if thy is the right word there, that if I don't enforce the rule, bc it really is a simple fix, then it gives my partners and my assignor the impression that I either don't know the rule or don't care. I'm new enough in our association that I want to make a good impression about those two things


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And I tend to be more aware of these rules at the lower levels so we don't have to deal with them on a Friday night or in a tournament setting.

I don't find that unfortunate

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This x100

NCAAW last night, had three players roll down socks so the double logo on the socks wasn't visible. Hate being the fashion police.

If I may....

Do You Really Not Care Either Way ???
 

Did you really mean to say, "I couldn't care less"?

And, if that's true, and you really don't care, and you have a choice to do it the right way, or the wrong way, and since you don't care either way, then why not just do it the right way instead of the wrong way?

Now, if you really do care, and you care in a way such that you want to demonstrate your hatred for such fashion rules, then go ahead and do it the wrong way. Take a stand.

And, if you really do care, and you care in such a way to enforce the rules as they are supposed to be enforced by the NFHS, and your state association, then go ahead and do it the right way.

We all have choices, but I hope that we don't just ignore the issue.

https://sp.yimg.com/xj/th?id=OIP.M86...=0&w=300&h=300

A couple of weeks ago, I went to work a middle school girls game. Some of the girls kept their warm-ups on right up until the time that the starters came onto the floor for the opening tip.

One of the starters wearing a black uniform had on a light gray undershirt. I happened to be lined up right by her coach, WHO IS ALSO A REFEREE! I asked him why it was that we are half way through the season and we still have girls wearing illegal undershirts. His response was, "Because none of the officials have done anything about it." I turned to him and said, "No, it's because YOU haven't done anything about it. I'm pretty sure that if you sat her down in that chair on the bench right next to you, she'd ask why she wasn't playing, and when you told her, the shirt issue would be corrected." He said, "Yeah, but then we'd lose the game." I told him if I worked any more of his games this season, and she had an illegal undershirt, she wouldn't be allowed to play until it fixed. I also spread the word around to my fellow officials about the conversation I had.

I should note that this coach is new to this area -- 1st year in our association too. Needless to say, his excuse did not sit well with me AT ALL.

Similar In Color To The Uniform Jersey ...
 

Maybe I'm confused, but if you knew the rule, and the coach knew the rule, then why wait until the next game? Why not instruct her, or have the coach instruct her, that she can't play in that game, that day, with an illegal undershirt? She doesn't have to take it off, but she can't play with it on.

Ok grammar police. You got me. I think the whole thing is silly and I would guess a lot of other officials agree. But, bc I want to do a good job, I enforce the rules. My statement about our city league is relevant bc I know I'm one of the few officials who do enforce the rules. It gets old being the bad guy but again, guess that is why we make the big dollars huh?


I wish I had a cool signature

Oh really? I can't speak for NCAAM but watch an NCAAW game and see if that's the case. To say our SRE is vigilant about uniform rules would be an understatement.

Fight The Good Fight Of The Faith (1 Timothy 6:12) ...
 

Agree, and well stated.

Coach: "Hey BillyMac. She was allowed to wear that Tuesday night. Why not tonight?"

And ... Scene.

I see absolutely nothing wrong with the coach's line of thinking.

I'm not sure why you're so worried about something that has no negative impact on the game.

Point taken. This is what I should have done, and will do if it ever pops up again.

I see EVERYTHING wrong with the coach's line of thinking. He knows the rules and should be properly instructing them.

When people ask me about the uniform rules, I tell them that when mom and dad are in the stands taking pictures, they should want the kids to look good in the photos. Everyone being properly uniformed helps this to happen. :rolleyes:

What does this have anything to do with knowing the rules and instructing them?

What you want doesn't matter; what the parents want does.

Choices, Choices, Choices ...
 

Here's the rule:

3-5-6: Undershirts shall be a single solid color similar to the torso of the jersey.

Some of us enforce the rule. Some of us don't enforce the rule, even when we know the undershirt color is illegal. Some of us don't understand rule. Some of us ignore the rule, and don't even check the color of undershirts.

In the absence of any contradictory exception from the state association, there's only one good way to go here.

"If you're not part of the solution, you're part of the problem" (Charles Rosner, 1967)

You're reaction and approach to this coach doesn't sit well with me.

Please elaborate.

You could have avoided all that talk with the coach by simply asking for a sub until the issue is corrected. The way you spoke to the coach sounds very aggressive and confrontational and does not sound professional IMO. Especially the part about not letting his girl play later in the season and spreading the news around to watch out for this girl.

Control what YOU can control and do it the right way, you are not there to act like the coach's parent.

“What’s It Gonna Be, Boy? (Paradise By The Dashboard Light, 1977) ...
 

So where do you fit?

Stand up and be counted.

Enforce? Not Enforce? Misunderstand? Ignore?

Have I covered all the bases?

Please don't make me start a poll thread.

"We have met the enemy and he is us." (Pogo, Walt Kelly, 1971)

I enforce the rules when I'm the official on the game.

Good Answer ...
 

Excellent. I may have misunderstood one of your earlier posts. Sorry.

I may have been confused because the coach was also a basketball official.

This sums up my reasoning pretty well. You seemed to take it personally that he allowed someone on his team to have the wrong color undershirt. J

The idea of 'spreading the word' also makes it sound like you want to punish him further. Just enforce the rule and move on.

If I know a coach is also a referee, they get no different treatment from me when I officiate their game. No additional conversation with them during the game, the leash for technical fouls is exactly the same as any other coach, and I do not discuss plays from a previous game with them.

Yes, he is also a basketball official, but not in the context of that game. He is a coach and should be treated as one. He should be treated the exact same as any other coach in the league.

Update----I got to be the bad guy again today.

BDR (me)-coach, home team can only have white undershirts and all sleeves/tights have to be same color.
Coach-"really??? (Sarcastically), why has nobody said anything and why hasn't it mattered before??
BDR-coach, I don't know but it matters today, please deal with it before your team continues warming up.

I am sick of hearing this exact convo at every junior high game. Ugh.


I wish I had a cool signature

Sadly? We spend more time worrying about uniform rules than we do learning how to call our balls and strikes. I see new officials who don't know what a pivot foot is but they can tell you what the logo restrictions are.

We don't have our priorities straight.

+1

It Is Possible To Do Both ...
 

We have a few of those guys. We also have some guys who can call the heck out of pivot feet, block charges, etc., but either misunderstand, or don't care to enforce the fashion standards.

Luckily we have a ton of guys that can do both. That's the high priority that we should all be striving for.

I only need one of three to know the fashion crap. I need all three to be good playcallers.

What's A Shot Clock ???
 

Connecticut prep schools (varsity only) use a shot clock. I'm a 100% NFHS guy, so I always pray that my partner will be a college guy.

If Connecticut prep schools use shot clocks, and you officiate Connecticut prep school, then you need to be 100% an official who knows the pertinent rules.

Shot Clock Preparation ...
 

I only get two, or three, varsity prep school games (only eight such schools in our local area) a year. My local interpreter makes available a handout on prep school rule differences (NCAA/NFHS hybrid), including a short synopsis of shot clock rules. I just downloaded and read through the handout yesterday knowing that I have a varsity prep school game next week. I keep the laminated handout (with a short synopsis of shot clock rules) in my bag and make it part of every varsity prep school pregame conference. I sleep well at night knowing that I've done enough to make me a pretty good prep school official.

However, I've been officiating with NFHS rules for thirty-five years (thousands of games) and I'm still stymied by a few of the rules, and interpretations, so it shouldn't surprise anyone that I'm occasionally stymied by NCAA rules, especially shot clock rules.

And it doesn't help that there's usually a poorly trained kid at the table, usually pulled out of the bleachers, working the shot clock that knows less about shot clock rules than a tree stump.

I feel that I've done my job preparing for such games, but it's still great to get an NCAA partner to confidently deal with the shot clock problems that often arise.

I just do not agree with the approach that since you only work a limited amount of those games that you should not be held to same standards as a college official working those same games.

We would not accept a college official working a NFHS game to say "I hope my partner is a seasoned HS officials because I don't know HS rules as well as I know college rules."

And the fact that poorly trained shot clock operators are at the table is all the more reason to dedicate yourself to knowing Connecticut prep school shot-clock rules as thoroughly as you should know NFHS/IAABO rules.

Experience ...
 

I know shot clock rules to the best of my ability depending on what's the handout that we're given, and responsible to interpret. Sometimes things get really weird, things that aren't covered on the short synopsis handout, things that are occasionally discussed by college guys here on the Forum (recent one: where ball is inbounded after specific type of shot clock violation).

Experience plays a big part of understanding (not just memorizing) a rule set.

That's why my comfort level goes way up when I work such a game with a college guy. He's more experienced with shot clocks than me, and will definitely have more expertise when something weird happens, and will be able to react quickly to such a situation, due to his experience level, while I stand there scratching my head trying to figure out what was on the handout regarding this weird situation.

At any level, the more experience one has, the better official one will probably be. For all intents and purposes, I'm a second year prep school official. Knowing the rules is great, but there's no substitute for experience.

At the college level is expected that the newer/rookie officials are the best at rules interpretation. All my college supervisors routinely tell their vets to listen to the rookies when it comes to rules. What newbies lack in experience they are expected to make up with rules knowledge.

Experience ...
 

I agree with some of what you say (I had a brand spanking new official correct me a few years ago on a kicked ball during an alternating possession throwin), but where the rubber meets the road, or when the shit hits the fan (pick your favorite metaphor), in a hotly contested varsity game (as almost all of our prep school games are), I would still vote for an experienced partner over "just passed the rules test" partner.

On the other hand, if I need a buddy to help me take a written, take home, open book, test ...

Note: There is no prep school hybrid rules, or shot clock, training here locally, or statewide. It's just a short handout that we download from the our local website. It's self tutorial kind of thing.

What college level? I've never heard this and would never expect a rookie to know more than I do. I don't expect much of anything from them besides looking pretty and not messing up a call right in front of them.

College level? :confused: What college conferences have you worked that you haven't heard this? Your expectations are nowhere in line with the expectations of college supervisors I've come across.

You're killing me.

I've only worked with one assigner for D2, so my exposure is limited. Until I move to the west coast, I'm enjoying the high school scene out here.