The Official Forum - False Double?

The Official Forum (https://forum.officiating.com/)

- Basketball (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/)

- - False Double? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/100387-false-double.html)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigCat (Post 970542)

Finally, and what you are thinking about in your question above,--if the rebounding foul by the shooter's teammate occurred prior to the release of the ball (shot) it would be come dead at that time. continuous motion does not apply to fouls by teammates. The shooter is not an airborne shooter. The rebounding foul would be a team control foul. B ball out of bounds. The foul on the shooter would be ignored unless flagrant or intentional.

Correct. Continuous motion does apply on fouls by opponents away from the ball.

edited: I didn't see the mention of "teammates"

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 970497)

If you state as a fact that the try was not yet over, then unfortunately, the crew working the contest screwed the defending team according to the rules because both fouls were live ball fouls and needed to be penalized. Why an official would ever decide to not penalize a legitimate foul during a live ball can only be due to weak rules knowledge. Such an official is forced to take that path as he/she just doesn't know how to properly adjudicate a given situation.

I agree with this 150%. I would like to dwell on it for a minute.

What is it about basketball in which a crew is in such a rush to make complex decisions (or wrongly simplify them) when in other sports crews are sometimes willing to spend several minutes to get it right?

This bugs the $hi+ out of me, especially when I'm a junior official and a veteran---who might be a pretty good play caller but doesn't understand rules logic to save his life---bullies us into some B.S. decision that keeps it simple.

I'm not going to lie. When I read the OP, the first thought that came to mind was "simultaneous foul." So then I thought, "ball not dead until try ends, score the FG if it's good, no free throws on a DF or SF, POI." It took me ten seconds to map this out in my brain. It would only take me another 10-20 seconds to explain it to my crewmates, and then after a small delay to explain it to the coaches, we could be on our way knowing we applied the rules correctly.

I read through the case book---cover to cover---at least once per year for exactly this reason. Imagine if NFL officials didn't read through their case books at least once per year!

Veterans: You gotta know this stuff. Or at least if you're not the strongest on rules, take your time to get it right and/or listen to your umpires explain it to you because they might just get it right. Swallow your pride.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 970497)

Why an official would ever decide to not penalize a legitimate foul during a live ball can only be due to weak rules knowledge.

This is not necessarily true. Many officials I know are big fans of following the path of least resistance. The only flagrant personal foul I ever called, my partner was over inbounding the ball while I was at the table. I killed the play. I thought the signal had been obvious, if not the play itself. When I told him what the call was, he was incredulous: "You have to fill out that paperwork!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 970510)

Agree, if the try ended because it was successful. But, if the try ended and was not successful, then the ball is still live. Penalize both fouls (as in 2.B)

This addition by Bob is, of course, correct.
In examining such a play for its elements, we need to be mindful of all of the possibilities. Thanks to Bob for pointing out one that I skipped over.