At our meeting tonight, a play was brought up where A1 makes a pass from behind the arc, it is tipped by a B player in the 2 point zone, while the ball is going up. The ball goes in, is this a 2 point or a 3 point goal?

Count three points scored.Casebook play 5.2.1SitC(b).

Thanks

You're welcome.

What if a normal attempt of 3 but tipped by a defensive player from inside the arc and it goes in. 2 or 3?
Thanks

Hmmm...ask yourself this. If a pass tipped by a defender inside the arc is 3 points, then why wouldn't a normal 3 point attempt, tipped by a defender be worth 3 points? :confused:

I thought it's because the last position held by the defender who touched the ball, was in 2-pt area. Pls advice.

Chin,
Look at 5.2.1 C in your casebook.

Where the defender legally(i.e.-on the way up)touches the ball has absolutely no bearing in regards as to whether the player will score 2 or 3 points.The only concern that you have is whether the offensive player is completely behind the 3 point line when he originally released the ball.The rule(R5-2-1) says that if you shoot,tap or throw the ball from outside the three point line,you will score 3 points as long as the ball does not touch the floor,a teammate or an official.If the ball does touch the floor,teammate or official,the 3 point try ends,by rule(R4-40-4),and if the ball subsequently goes in,the offensive team can only score 2 points(as long as the ball goes through the basket before time runs out in the quarter). Naturally,if the defender <B>illegally</B> touches the ball(basket interference or goaltending),you would award 2 or 3 points dependant on where the offensive player was when he originally released the ball.

Make sense?

Thank you JR & Nevadaref. I think I need a most updated rule & casebook. I have a 1998-2002 FIBA handbook with rules, cases & mechanics and I also have an Official Basketball Rules 2000 with rules changed 2003. Pls advice again if I can be able to mail-order the updated book and any video or tape to improve my reffing.

FIBA
 

Chin ref,
Most of the guys on this board are American High School refs using NF rules. Everything these guys wrote about tipped shots is correct for NF rules-but wrong for FIBA rules which you use. Under FIBA rules a tipped 3 point attempt is only worth 2 if the defender jumped from the 2 point area. Likewise if a 2 point attempt is tipped by a defender jumping from the 3 point area and it goes in it will be worth 3 points.(--But I've never seen that happen before and don't expect I will.)

Thank you OC. I'm feeling much better now. BTW, what is NF stands for?

NF
 

NF stands for National Federation of State High School Associations.

These are the rules used by most High Schools (and middle schools) in America.

I see, OC, just like the NBA, the NF modified the FIBA rules.

Re: FIBA
 

So A1 attempts a try from behind the 3-point arc. B1 jumps from just inside the 3-point arc and partially blocks the try. The ball enters the basket. You are only going to award 2 points?!?! That seems really silly to me.

Was the FIBA code in place before the NBA?!?! Hard to believe.

Re: Re: FIBA
 

It's seems silly?

You're too kind. :(

Re: Re: Re: FIBA
 

Well, I did say it seems really silly. :)

Re: Re: FIBA
 

Hey Chuck, that was one of my questions on my little FIBA quiz a while back. Most of you ignored it, I was NOT surprised.

I am curious if the FIBA rules are older or younger than NBA, NCAA or NF rules. Obviously the game was invented in the USA (by a Canadian I might add), I would assumed that FIBA rules do not pre-date "American" rules. Does anyone know this history?

Why do all my posts end up in an argument between people who use FIBA and people who use the American Rules?

ref18, I really don't mean to argue. That's the rule, and that's how you should call it if you work with FIBA rules. I just don't think it's fair to judge the value of the shot on where the defender last touched the floor. I think it makes more sense to judge the value of the shot by where the shooter last touched the floor.

I think I see the logic of the FIBA interp, I just don't think it's the fairest interp.

... and I never even plan on seeing that play. :rolleyes:
mick

So, if a 3 pointer is bouncing on the rim, a defender jumps, taps it, which is legal, and it still goes in, it's not worth 3 points? :confused:

Correct.

Let me play the devil's advocate. A defender (NCAA) slaps the backboard, the shot rolls off the rim as the rim is still vibrating. Basket interference? No. Is that the fairest interpretation?

Interesting point, Jay. I think it's a fair interpretation, b/c we have another rule in place that allows us to give the offense a chance at those two points.

We don't call BI or GT, b/c it technically doesn't fit the definition. But we can assess a technical foul, which gives the offense the opportunity to score those two points.

mick, you can't see a 3-point shot being partially blocked and still going in the basket? I don't think it's quite as improbable as you make it sound.

No. Can't see it. Can't imagine it.
My mind still works from time to time, but I am left-handed, ya know.http://www.click-smilie.de/sammlung0...smiley-005.gif

Perhaps Jay was referring to a situation involving a try for 3 points.

Far be it from me, however, to bring up that can of worms again . . . . :p

While I don't necessarily agree with this rule, it's not nearly as absurd as as the FIBA rule on a blocked 3 point shot.

My take on all of this is there no one set of rules that is perfect.

In our province (New Brunswick), there is a movement to adopt one set of rules for the different levels of play: probably NCAA. Right now, High Schools use FIBA and colleges use NCAA. Many officials work both levels and the differences are numerous. Our provincial association is looking at the adoption of one set rules which would benefit players, coaches and especially officials.

For the record, I believe that FIBA is the weakest (or feeblest) in terms of interpretations. Especially its no goaltending rule above the cylinder. This rule is irrelevant at the lowest levels since nobody plays above the rim, but at higher levels it's a joke.

--I had it in a game last year. 3 point attempt tipped by defender jumping from inside the line and then following through and fouling the airborne shooter. Basket was good.

Defender's coach refs FIBA games sometimes and as I am reporting the foul asked if the scorers made a mistake and shouldn't I notify them to only score 2 points because of the tip. Fortunately I knew the rules discrepency between the two interpretations and explained that he was right under FIBA but not in this game under NF rules.



[Edited by oc on Sep 15th, 2003 at 04:50 PM]

I'm just fortunate that I ref'd in British Columbia, Canada & now I'm reffing in Hong Kong. So many differences in terms of culture, attitude & the level of officiating. I have learned that I SHALL COMPLY WITH WHATEVER MY ASSOCIATION INSTRUCT or I dont ref. I wish I have the chance to ref in U.S.A in the future.

I don't agree. It seems to me that if the defender can jump that well, both in terms of height and timing, he deserves a reward!

Although, I'm with mick in thinking it's not going to happen very often.

I agree with rainmaker. If you want it to count for three, don't let the defense tip the ball. I think, however, that it's silly to reward an offensive player in the hypothetical case where a defender jumps from beyond the arc (think fast break jumps hot from 18 feet) to tip a 2-point attempt. Essentially, we're granting the offense a point for a bad offensive play. I can see the case for consistency in discounting the position of the defender in all cases (a la NF rules).