I got thrown out of the game!!!
 

So I was doing my first game of the season tonight at a local men's wreck league. (I know, I know, there's the problem right there). It is a league with decent ball with ex college and semi pro players. Before the game the league director said to make sure to keep the game in control. I said alright sounds good. Everything was going just fine during the game the occasional whine about a call/no call but nothing excessive.
About half way through the 1st half both me and my partner warn blue 34 to quit complaining about an easy call. He carries on for a moment or two. No other real issues.

Well half way through the second half this same player is getting a bit chippy. I look at one of my partners and give him the watch blue 34 signal, sure enough, we get him for an easy illegal screen for sticking a leg out.

That is his fourth foul and he goes off whining lol the way to the bench sits down and says, "call it both ways.." I naturally serve a cup of T and go about my business. One of his teammates tries to defend him and I told him he had already been warned and he kept running his mouth so he got a technical, and then loudly to everyone else, "and this serves as everyone else's warning." No one complained after that or disagreed and even his teammate knew he deserved the T.

Next play the kid on the bench is still mouthing off. I calmly told him, "I can give you another and you can leave if you want." The league organizer who is also serving as the scorekeeper says, "you are out of control." :eek::confused:
I'm like, "for what?"
"I can see you giving him a T for saying 'F&$@ing call it both ways' but not for jut saying 'call it both ways.'"
"I had warned him once already and he is still running his mouth that is a technical foul."
"Remember what I said at the beginning of the game?"
"Yeah keep it under control." (The game was very much under control up until this point.)
"Well you can leave, you are out of control.":rolleyes:
I was pretty incredulous at this point at what was going on.
We basically had the same conversation in the hall trying to pled my case but it was to no avail.

It was the craziest thing I had ever seen.

I would make sure I took as many officials as I could with me. I hope you got paid.

I thought about it after the fact. I'll find out in a week or two.

Did your partner go with you?

Sounds like that in all reality he did you a favor.

This is a reminder that league directors and commissioners do not care about the game or you.

They only care about getting players to continue coming back and paying money to play, and they will throw you under the bus in order to accomplish that goal.

Hi all - long time lurker, decided to come out ;)

Clearly that moron doesn't understand the rules of the game. Once a game has started, he has no right to do anything other than watch. Yep, at the end he can toss you out on your ear, but until then all he can do is shut his cakehole :) I would have thrown him out first :D

Sorry to hear you were treated so poorly.

Call It Both Ways ...
 

Player-speak, and coach-speak, for, "You're cheating", which cannot be ignored. This must always be addressed with either a warning, or a technical foul, depending on the circumstances.

What Rich said.

In my younger days when I did wreck ball something similar happened (twice in my career). First game of a 4 game set. Midway through the first half a player was being a pain in the rear and after two warnings I T him up. He takes the ball and chucks it to the other side of the gyms and so I toss him. The organizer says that I already gave him a T and to let him vent. I told him to find another ref and to take me off his schedule and left.

At that point I knew my wreck ball officiating career was coming to a close and I haven't looked back. For the last 8 or 9 years I will not work any kind of adult leagues or unsanctioned events. I only do AAU tournaments where I trust the assignor is fair and just.

At that point, I'm walking out and not coming back. They can finish the game with one. I'm also sending an email to other officials strongly advising them against working for him. Whether they take that advice or not is not my concern.

This is why I largely avoid wreck ball. I don't even thing about doing any adult league. We are not paid enough to pander to greedy league organizers who have no clue what our job is about.

Way back in 1995 I was living in Tennessee, where we were forced to work preseason jamborees (scrimmages) for free.

(BTW, this is an evil practice. Here schools hire scrimmage officials and pay us the same they pay us for games.)

So I show up, I start working, and one of the coaches is already in late-season form, bitching and complaining on every call. Finally I told him I had enough. He told me that he's going to do what he wants and there's nothing I can do about it.

So I walked over to the table and started changing my shoes. Coach said, "where are you going?" I told him there was one thing I can do -- I'm leaving.

Partner came over and begged me to stay. I told him he should be leaving, too, but if he wants to stay and work alone, have at it. Didn't like the guy and he thought he'd make me look bad and earn Brownie points for staying, so he did.

Our supervisor opened up the next meeting with a 10 minute rant -- it included praise for what I did, ripping the other guy for staying, and explicit instructions that if anything like this ever happened again that officials are to "put the ball on the table and go to the house."

I would have done the same thing you did. We are not paid for scrimmages in South Carolina, but we are permitted to call Ts and supported when we do so (at least one was given in the scrimmages I had to work last year). I will not take crap when I'm not being paid, and I don't know why anyone would quite frankly. Sorry, not happening. I'm either serving T and being supported for doing so or I'm walking out.

"Call it both ways!"

"Sorry, I can't. I can only call it the right way."

Really? For thin skinned people, maybe. That's not even going to get on my radar...just white noise.

Yup. Meaningless coach-speak that goes in one ear and not the other. Unless it's SCREAMED at me....

Cheaters Never Prosper ...
 

Absolutely not an automatic technical foul, but I won't ignore it. If I'm not calling it both ways, then I must be only calling only one way, for only one team, and that's paramount to calling me a cheater, and I don't like being called a cheater, even in a passing remark.

Usually when questioned about this a coach will come back with, "Well I only wanted to point out that the last three close calls went their way, I'm not calling you a cheater, just venting a little".

To which I reply, "I'm calling them as I see them. Please vent in some other manner".

And that usually takes care of the issue. Of course my thirty-four years of experience, the fact that I've been around the block several times, the fact that the coach knows that that game is not my first rodeo, and that I have a headful of gray hair, often helps me win my point.

Most coaches don't really understand the ramifications of, "Call it both ways". Once they realize how this statement can be perceived, or misinterpreted, by an official, they will usually back off.

Rarely, a coach will really mean, "You're cheating my team", and those rare situations can be dealt with with a cup of tea.

I'm going to be the devil's advocate here. This is a rec league. They are not the same as interscholastic ball. Little if any ramifications for their actions. You need the right attitude going in. I think you made several mistakes.

Rec league, I don't see this action as T. Easy to ignore and go on.

Really? Not professional at all. Nothing you said showed this was necessary. Just elevating the situation IMO.


Don't engage with a bench. Tell coach to address it but don't address a bench player. T him if you need to but nothing good can come from engaging with bench other than coach.


Why? Would you put shoes back on and go back for more punishment?

Rec leagues are where most of use earned our stripes at one time or another. I sure would never work for a league that didn't back officials but you need to expect difference from organized ball. Fortunately the league I worked was run by good officials and they always backed us. Rich, knows, he worked there in early 2000's with me. But to me, it sounds like you had a chip on your shoulder going in. Players don't want to be shown up any more than we do and confronting them and yelling at them sure isn't earning anyone's respect. You cant demand respect by trying to show up players and hide behind your stripes.

A T in this league = 2 min sit out. A second one equals ejection and suspension. My attitude was just fine going in. Everyone had been whining the whole game. This player was the worst and both me and my partner had already warned him. And It's Rec ball. No ramifications for the T as it was the last game of the season anyway.

No coaches in this leauge. He was the only sub and only player on the bench.

Like I said, from the players standpoint, no one had a problem with anything we as a crew were doing except for this dude. Not my assigner, not my partner, not the players. I wasn't having an issue until right then.

It has been a few months since I worked in this league. Usually the sit for 2 rule is a good sign the league backs officials. The person who ran it before backed us and would have had no problem with what I did. I know because this very thing has happened several times before. Obviously this new guy is an ignoramus and wants to cut the legs off of his officials so it will be an unpleasant experience for everyone.

My assigner backs what I did.

I totally had quit doing all rec ball for ages less than 9th grade and liked working this league for the game management skills I learned. This is the only one I do.

Not quite sure where you think I have a chip on my shoulder. I pride myself in knowing the rules and working very hard to be the best official I can be. Showing him up would have been me sticking him again on the bench or sticking other players for mouthing off any other time. This was routine easy peazy lemon squeezy and he didn't even argue the T.

Now all that has happened is the players now think they can get the referees in trouble by provoking them.
This leauge I'd going down hill fast from here.

A line I have used many times.."COACH HOW MUCH YOU PAYING US FOR TONIGHT'S GAME? NOTHING..THEN COACH YOU CAN'T COMPLAIN:D

And if I were the assigner on this game, I would tell the league director to not try and do my officials job. I would send that referee back the first opportunity I could and I would be there to support their actions. (as long as they are supportable. If the league director doesn't like the experienced well qualified officials I am sending then he can find them somewhere else.

Your job isn't to show people up, though. The loud warning was unnecessary and you have to expect a bit more mouth from adults than HS kids.

He said "call it both ways" on the way off the court? Big deal. Put the ball back in play.

That said, leagues should be backing their officials in public. No excuse for that.

If I'm the partner, I'm walking out with him, never working this league again, and I've got my assigner on the phone before I start my car.

I'm still trying to figure out why you stuck around to plead your case to someone you say is an ignoramus.

He is not the assignor, so why did you feel you need to plead with him? You should have been sitting in your car by then, informing the assignor what had happened.

That is all I need to know.

Peace

Yeah for sure. No skin off my back. Let's get on with the real season.

And this is for everyone, what do you say to let the rest of the players know you are done listening to the whining? What is better than what I said. I would like to add it to my verbiage.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

By the timed you've T'ed one player up there is no need to warn the rest. If they haven't received the message by then they are pretty dense.

Prior to handing out any T's I would do it while administering free throws. A simple "I'm done" or "We're not listening to any more" is all that's needed.

I like "That's enough". It's short but it does not imply an ultimatum either.

I would never warn a player who has already received a technical foul. After a technical, I will let the player or coach say a few things (within reason) because they are obviously frustrated. If they can't reel themselves in, they will pick up technical #2; which will often come from a partner.

"I've heard enough, and that's your warning."

The baseball line is, "Knock it off."

My barely $.02 cents worth. . .

Every official has their own his/her level of tolerance. If you felt you were past your own level of tolerance and it warranted a technical foul to the player, then that's great. I think the only thing that could've been done better was where to talk to the player or any of his team after that. . .that is not the time to engage with anyone. Just tell them "Not right now" or "I'll get back to you later" if they wanted to talk about it. . .

Technical fouls call themselves, if its obvious and that player(s), coach, whatever is trying to show you or your partner up - they wrote the check so go ahead and cash it. . .

That being said, to the poster who stated they wouldn't address or tech a player calling him a cheater. For me, that's non-basketball and basically, questioning an official's integrity, so whether its in passing or out loud, the very least they would get from me is a technical. What we permit as stripes, we're basically promoting as well. . .

On the side note, that league sounds like its not worth your time or gas to be there, so I'm sure there are plenty of other leagues or games to be officiated. . .

Move on.

That's enough, no more.

*ha ha--are you saying you are tired of reading/venting about this thread topic -or-are you intending that you "agree" with the poster's remarks?

I've experienced 4 unique things about reffing adult "wreck' leagues: 1) since there is no 'coach' to serve as intermediary between refs and players to arbitrate issues--we must deal directly with the players--ergo--we must have a more or less "wider lattitude" in dealing with their gripes--as compared to an interscholastic event (which is purportedly supposed to be 'an extension of the classroom') wherein we refs can be strict regarding conduct. Now, bear in mind, that I must confess that I did serve up a "cup of T'' to an adult league player who dropped a very loud "GD-bomb" during a fit of disdain on a game that did on an Ash Wednesday evening.
2) in most cases, the players are a "legend in their own mind"--(i.e., their skills have irrecovably diminished and yet they think they are still quick and agile) when most of the time they are bumbling, stumbling, and hacking around--hence they are looking for a 'scapegoat' to 'transfer' their poor performance to---us refs are their first target.
3) It was not suprising that the league coordinator did not support you---they can be such sapps.
4) If it were me, I'd probably have left also---I mean, if there was a gang up fight then even that coordinator wouldn't intercede on your behalf sounds like.

At any rate I commend you for coping with it as long as you could--for a ref of your talent and experience level there are numerous other games/leagues for you to work in.

Would this have been a T on Fat Tuesday too? Or on any other night of the year? Ash Wednesday shouldn't make a difference in how we call things. If it's a T on Ash Wednesday, it should be a T on any other Wednesday as well.

I agree that there is wider latitude given in rec league games, but there are still limits. Just make sure the players understand what those limits are, ESPECIALLY if they vary based on the holiday they may not even realize they are playing on.

I agree Mregor.

There are going to be some players who are just Ars#$@. You keep them on a shorter leash or they will be jerks the whole way through. But I've learned to let things slide, and myself and most of the refs who have done a lot more of these games, learn to deal with it and it can actually be fun(sort of,when your not tired after doing 3 in a row). A lot of the players get to know you and we often talk and chat more than I would during high school games. I would never call a T for someone saying "Call it both ways", assuming it isn't shouting or showing me or my partner up.