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-   -   Ruling? (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/99724-ruling.html)

JJ Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:17am
Ruling?
 
Hit and run is on from our opponent. We are on defense. Hitter hits a fly ball to center field. Can my middle infield decoy the runner by faking a double play turn to try to get the runner to slide into second base?
I know a fake TAG is not legal, but how about this?

JJ

jTheUmp Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:10pm
Can your fielder do this? Sure. But if he does, and it changes how F1 touches second base, it's obstruction.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NFHS 2-22-1, emphasis mine
ART. 1 . . . Obstruction is an act (intentional or unintentional, as well as physical or verbal) by a fielder, any member of the defensive team or its team personnel that hinders a runner or changes the pattern of play as in 5-1-3 and 8-3-2; or when a catcher or fielder hinders a batter as in 5-1-2b, 8-1-1e, 8-3-1c and 8-3-2. When obstruction occurs, the ball becomes dead at the end of playing action and the umpire has authority to determine which base or bases shall be awarded the runners according to the rule violated (Exceptions 8-4-2c, 8-4-2d).

Matt Wed Apr 29, 2015 12:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by jTheUmp (Post 961489)
Can your fielder do this? Sure. But if he does, and it changes how F1 touches second base, it's obstruction.
No, it's not. Decoys are legal.

jTheUmp Thu Apr 30, 2015 08:56am
Got any rules basis to back up your assertion?

MD Longhorn Thu Apr 30, 2015 10:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by jTheUmp (Post 961522)
Got any rules basis to back up your assertion?
He does not... because there aren't any.

This can be obstruction, if it alters the runner's path.

Rich Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:13am
If F4 decoys catching a ground ball, that's nothing.

If F6 comes across the bag in a decoy and forces R1 to slide, I'm likely calling obstruction.

Welpe Thu Apr 30, 2015 11:28am
This is going to depend upon the rule set.

MD Longhorn Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:29pm
I agree with Rich... not sure I agree with Welpe... in which ruleset would this be different?

umpjim Thu Apr 30, 2015 12:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 961538)
I agree with Rich... not sure I agree with Welpe... in which ruleset would this be different?
I would think OBR since Jeter gets away with it.

umpjim Thu Apr 30, 2015 01:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rich (Post 961535)
If F4 decoys catching a ground ball, that's nothing.

If F6 comes across the bag in a decoy and forces R1 to slide, I'm likely calling obstruction.
I don't understand the distinction between the two.

MD Longhorn Thu Apr 30, 2015 01:47pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by umpjim (Post 961539)
I would think OBR since Jeter gets away with it.
OBR has the same rules...

That said, there are many instances where MLB interprets OBR differently than anyone else. Collisions at the plate (until recently) for example.

umpjim Thu Apr 30, 2015 02:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 961541)
OBR has the same rules...

That said, there are many instances where MLB interprets OBR differently than anyone else. Collisions at the plate (until recently) for example.

According to my 2011 BRD, Childress says that dekes are legal in all codes except for the fake tag and verbal obstruction in FED. FED has a caseplay that considers the "Miami play" legal.

MD Longhorn Thu Apr 30, 2015 02:05pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by umpjim (Post 961543)
According to my 2011 BRD, Childress says that dekes are legal in all codes except for the fake tag and verbal obstruction in FED. FED has a caseplay that considers the "Miami play" legal.
Sure...

but getting in the way of the runner without the ball, and making said runner deviate from their path is OBS. Pretty clearly in fact. Not actually sure why there's any disagreement on this one.

umpjim Thu Apr 30, 2015 02:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 961544)
Sure...

but getting in the way of the runner without the ball, and making said runner deviate from their path is OBS. Pretty clearly in fact. Not actually sure why there's any disagreement on this one.
I think a fake pivot move would not normally be in the way of a runner if it was done a la Jeter.

Welpe Thu Apr 30, 2015 02:42pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 961544)

but getting in the way of the runner without the ball, and making said runner deviate from their path is OBS. Pretty clearly in fact. Not actually sure why there's any disagreement on this one.
That's not how I'm reading it. If he physically obstructs the runner, then sure that's OBS but all I'm seeing in this is an action to make the runner think there's a play being made on him. That's a deke and legal in OBR.

A fake tag is not illegal in pure OBR like it is in FED and probably many of the alphabet soup derivations of OBR. Not even FED outlaws all types of dekes.


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