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-   -   Pick off play at 1B (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/98355-pick-off-play-1b.html)

onetime1 Tue Sep 02, 2014 07:19pm

Pick off play at 1B
 
This weekend at the annual Labor Day family reunion picnic the following occurred. My dad is a right handed thrower and on the mound proceeds to give up a beauty bunt single to my little brother who overruns 1B and twists his ankle. My stepmom comes on as the pinch runner and is the tying run with 2 outs in the last inning. The right handed pitcher then comes set with his chest facing 1b and his left foot on the rubber like a left handed pitcher would normally do. He then proceeds to step off with his left foot and does a snap throw to 1B with his inside right hand and picks off my step mom bigger than life. The place erupts and I am not quite sure if we will continue to play baseball at our picnics anymore after that heated argument. Was this a legal pick off play?

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Tue Sep 02, 2014 08:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by onetime1 (Post 939664)
This weekend at the annual Labor Day family reunion picnic the following occurred. My dad is a right handed thrower and on the mound proceeds to give up a beauty bunt single to my little brother who overruns 1B and twists his ankle. My stepmom comes on as the pinch runner and is the tying run with 2 outs in the last inning. The right handed pitcher then comes set with his chest facing 1b and his left foot on the rubber like a left handed pitcher would normally do. He then proceeds to step off with his left foot and does a snap throw to 1B with his inside right hand and picks off my step mom bigger than life. The place erupts and I am not quite sure if we will continue to play baseball at our picnics anymore after that heated argument. Was this a legal pick off play?



BALK!!

MTD, Sr.

Matt Tue Sep 02, 2014 08:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by onetime1 (Post 939664)
This weekend at the annual Labor Day family reunion picnic the following occurred. My dad is a right handed thrower and on the mound proceeds to give up a beauty bunt single to my little brother who overruns 1B and twists his ankle. My stepmom comes on as the pinch runner and is the tying run with 2 outs in the last inning. The right handed pitcher then comes set with his chest facing 1b and his left foot on the rubber like a left handed pitcher would normally do. He then proceeds to step off with his left foot and does a snap throw to 1B with his inside right hand and picks off my step mom bigger than life. The place erupts and I am not quite sure if we will continue to play baseball at our picnics anymore after that heated argument. Was this a legal pick off play?

Was he wearing a glove?

Welpe Tue Sep 02, 2014 11:26pm

In order to answer this I need to know what kind of cobbler was served at this picnic?

scrounge Wed Sep 03, 2014 06:42am

The legality of this play is dependent on many factors, primarily the probability of sleeping on the couch for the next month.

onetime1 Wed Sep 03, 2014 07:51am

Yes wearing a glove on his left hand as usual and came set like usual as well. Then stepped back with his left foot and snapped throw with right hand. Why is this a balk. He was adamant everything was done by the rules.Told my mom once he steps off he becomes an infielder therefore how can infielders deceive runners he yelled.

bob jenkins Wed Sep 03, 2014 08:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by onetime1 (Post 939673)
Why is this a balk.

simulating a pitching motion while not on the rubber.

For FED, see 6.1.3L

Rich Ives Wed Sep 03, 2014 09:29am

Quote:

Originally Posted by onetime1 (Post 939673)
Yes wearing a glove on his left hand as usual and came set like usual as well. Then stepped back with his left foot and snapped throw with right hand. Why is this a balk. He was adamant everything was done by the rules.Told my mom once he steps off he becomes an infielder therefore how can infielders deceive runners he yelled.

Glove on his left hand means he was pitching right-handed. Therefore his right foot would be his pivot foot and to be in contact he would have to have his right foot on the rubber. He didn't so he was simulating a pitch while not in contact. Balk.

john5396 Wed Sep 03, 2014 09:32am

He was not on the rubber because he contacted the rubber with his non pivot foot, not his pivot foot. This was a balk as soon as he stared doing pitching motions while not proerly in contact with the rubber, (looking for sign, scratching, stretch, etc.).

I had a youth coach a few years ago adamantly insist he had found this flaw in the rule a few years ago... Windup position with the non pivit foot on the rubber, pivot behind the rubber, start to hind up, stepping back with the non pivot foot, then pickoff the runner at 3rd...(Love it when a dad thinks he has found a loophole in the rule and teached a kid to cheat...)

john5396 Wed Sep 03, 2014 09:34am

Fed 2.28.6 defines pivot foot, so Dad cannot just say his left foort was his pivot foot.

Rich Ives Wed Sep 03, 2014 09:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by john5396 (Post 939678)
Fed 2.28.6 defines pivot foot, so Dad cannot just say his left foot was his pivot foot.

OBR 2.00 The pitcher’s PIVOT FOOT is that foot which is in contact with the pitcher’s plate as he delivers the pitch.

BSUmp16 Wed Sep 03, 2014 10:46am

It seems to me this is key: "Glove on his left hand means he was pitching right-handed." Is there rule support for this?

Also, is it even possible to pitch from this position? (I mean physically). And assuming further he could physically deliver the ball to the catcher using his right hand from this position, would that violate any other pitching proscriptions?

bob jenkins Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSUmp16 (Post 939682)
It seems to me this is key: "Glove on his left hand means he was pitching right-handed." Is there rule support for this?

Also, is it even possible to pitch from this position? (I mean physically). And assuming further he could physically deliver the ball to the catcher using his right hand from this position, would that violate any other pitching proscriptions?

1) Under the ambidextrous pitcher / batter rules, there's a clause (or an interp) that the pitcher can "declare" by placing the glove on one hand or the other.

2) Sure. Lots of two year olds first step "goofy footed" when they are learning to throw.

You're not going to see it in MLB, so maybe it's just one of the omissions in OBR.

onetime1 Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:47pm

Now after watching the replay since it all happened so fast. The glove was on his right hand but ahh was pulled up so it was more so attached to his forearm/wrist and the ball then was between both hands.

Rich Ives Wed Sep 03, 2014 12:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BSUmp16 (Post 939682)
It seems to me this is key: "Glove on his left hand means he was pitching right-handed." Is there rule support for this?

Also, is it even possible to pitch from this position? (I mean physically). And assuming further he could physically deliver the ball to the catcher using his right hand from this position, would that violate any other pitching proscriptions?

You think he's going to pitch from the glove? :)

8.01(f ) A pitcher must indicate visually to the umpire-in-chief, the batter and any runners the hand with which he intends to pitch, which may be done by wearing his glove on the other hand while touching the pitcher’s plate.


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