CWS plate umpire saying pitch location?
 

It's been a long time since I did any baseball, let alone college level. In my training, I was always of the mind that the plate umpire simply calls ball if it is a ball. I hear some of the plate umpires in the CWS saying where the pitch was on a ball at times. I'm guessing these guys are top of the line arbiters and it is OK for them to do this. Anyone fill me in?

There are a couple of MLB umpires that do that. It's not like it's forbidden.

Usually it screams out, "Rookie". But I guess with these guys we know better.

I do it at all levels I work. Eliminates the "where was that" nonsense on pitches that are close but in/out. I never say if a pitch is up/down - I figure a coach should be able to see that one.

Eh, personal preference. Times change.

"What do ya mean up? That pitch was belt high... look through the mask not at it!"
"What do you mean low? What are you looking at?"

No Rich, I don't give 'em any ammunition. "Where was that?" I usually ignore them. Although, once I did turn and say:

"Where was what?"
"That pitch, where was it?"
"Sorry coach, last time I saw it, it was in your catcher's glove!"

The only response I normally give is if the coach hollers out to his catcher by name and asks him where the pitch was. If the catcher shrugs or gives a signal indicating it was a strike, I tell the catcher "wrong answer".

Of course I don't work CWS on TV either.

I do the same as Rich. It's widely accepted in many, many circles.

I will say that it's more acceptable to verbalize ins and outs as opposed to ups and downs since they can see those from the dugouts.

Not following how a coach can see up/down, but not in/out. It's not like the plate is THAT small.

On a corner pitch, if a catcher asks me, I might tell him (outside rather than low... or low rather than outside ... or both low and outside). Or if a good catcher with whom I have a rapport briefly frames a corner pitch, I might quietly verbalize for him which way it missed.

He said he did NOT give High/Low - just In/Out.

Go watch from the dugout.. High/Low is easy to see. In/Out is just a guess from there. It's about the angles, not the distance ;)

can you really tell in and out from A? Same thing for the coaches from the dugout.

Assuming the catcher's not setting up in a weird spot - in/out is usually pretty easy to see from A, C, or either coaches dugouts. Watch the glove.

"usually" being the operative word. Coaches also don't ask "usually".

When the catcher is on the corner, and the pitch is "close" you can't really tell.

And, yes, sometimes they are asking to make a point. Answering ahead of time can help stop them from doing that.

Plenty of times, a catcher sets up 6 inches or more outside (0-2 counts, etc), the pitcher hits the spot, catcher doesn't move the glove at all. From the side, looks like a strike, but still well outside.

Exactly.

Just because MLB umpires do it, that doesn't make it correct.

What is still being taught as far as I know is to NOT verbalize location. But plenty of umpires will go ahead and do it anyway out of personal preference. I do it as well only on close pitches, despite evaluators telling me I shouldn't.

But it still isn't forbidden.

First of all, the main reason they are asking is because they didn't like the call. They ask hoping to get into your mind. Anyone, ANYONE, can see what side of the plate or if a pitch is high or low, so to ask "where was that pitch", well your just getting played.

If you feel as an umpire that you have to appease the coach, then go for it.

Its a strike when I say "Strike" and a ball when I say "Ball".

Stay consistent and you minimize the questions.

And please, don't tell me about how you need to know so I can tell the pitcher how to adjust. Teach him to find the zone and learn what his out pitch is for the official doing the game.

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Years ago, I'd do what everyone else did -- punish the catcher that set up outside and then reached over to catch the pitch on the plate.

I don't do that anymore. I don't throw away strikes, not even in college games. So reading catchers isn't sufficient to tell a coach if a pitch is in or out.

Besides, a lot of guys set up 6 inches off and the pitcher dutifully puts it there. Doesn't make it a strike, regardless of how pretty it looks from the dugout.

I never implied one should call pitches based on where the catcher was. Not at all. The catcher is irrelevant to my call.

What I said was that in the vast majority of the cases, an umpire in A or C, or a coach near any dugout, can easily see the difference between an inside pitch or an outside pitch based on the movements of the catcher. They are not stupid - they KNOW why it was a ball (with the exception of a pitch near a corner that I mentioned earlier). They are asking so they can be rats - that's all they're doing.

Well, it's not forbidden for all three base umpires to position themselves around the mound either.

Off the top of my head, I cannot think of something that is outright forbidden for umpires when it comes to positioning and mechanics. That doesn't mean we can do anything we want out there.

Reaching.


If you can verbalize effectively for the level you work and the players and coaches you're working with, I don't see what the problem is. I give in/out and it works and I still get to call games.

I'm only working softball these days, but if the catcher moves the glove after catching it, I might tell them "if you like it-frame it" to let them know how I work.

You missed my point. Just cuz something isn't forbidden, it doesn't make it right.

And I mentioned before that I, too, verbalize every now and then.

Tevye danced with his wife.

Nostrovia!