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-   -   The new face of 'voluntary release'? (https://forum.officiating.com/baseball/97683-new-face-voluntary-release.html)

jicecone Wed Apr 09, 2014 03:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by LRZ (Post 931092)
I don't know how "official" this is, but on Umpire-Empire, there's a post from Wendelstedt Umpire School. I don't know how to link to it, but here is the text:

"In determining whether a fielder drops the ball 'while in the act of making a throw following the catch' in accordance with Rule 2.00, the umpires will determine whether the fielder obtained possession of a ball in flight but dropped the ball while in the act of making a throw during the momentum of the catch. For example, if the shortstop, in an effort to turn a double play, throws to the second baseman, who drops the ball while in the act of drawing back his arm to make a throw to first base, the second baseman shall be adjudged to have had secure control of the ball and thus the ball shall be adjudged to have been caught by the second baseman. However, it shall not be adjudged to be a catch if, while in the act of making a throw during the momentum of the catch, the fielder loses possession of the ball in the transfer (e.g., flip from the glove) before he secures the ball with his throwing hand.

Our emphasis:
The 'flip' itself is not deemed a voluntary release, even though it may be a voluntary action. This is an update you will find in the 2014 Rules and Interpretations Manual. We have removed the exclusive interpretation offered for a number of year providing that it only be an attempted voluntary release. This is no longer the case. The release must be voluntary. Additionally, this interpretation has been merged with a tag of a base as well on the front end of a double play attempt. He must secure the ball in his throwing hand before it will be deemed secure possession was made."

Well I certainly hope they go back and change the definition part of a Catch in 2.00 "A CATCH is the act of a fielder in getting secure possession in his hand or glove of a ball in flight and firmly holding it... to and.

Manny A Wed Apr 09, 2014 03:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by LRZ (Post 931092)
We have removed the exclusive interpretation offered for a number of year providing that it only be an attempted voluntary release.

I'll say it's exclusive. I've never heard of "attempted voluntary release" until now.

Publius Wed Apr 09, 2014 07:25pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 931065)
[COLOR="red"]And, if it's in any way "official" -- then I will change how I call it in many of my games.

Not me. This "interpretation" is in direct conflict with the letter of the rule. MLB is just making sh!t up now because they can.

Any fielder who closes his glove around the ball before he releases it without contacting the ground, another player, or a wall has caught it in my games.

UMP45 Wed Apr 09, 2014 10:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Publius (Post 931182)
Not me. This "interpretation" is in direct conflict with the letter of the rule. MLB is just making sh!t up now because they can.

Any fielder who closes his glove around the ball before he releases it without contacting the ground, another player, or a wall has caught it in my games.

Exactly. And when you get to the show you'll call it the way MLB says call it!

Robert E. Harrison Thu Apr 10, 2014 09:21am

I got your back!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by UMP45 (Post 931214)
Exactly. And when you get to the show you'll call it the way MLB says call it!

Or not and let the guys in NY change it for you.

UMP45 Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert E. Harrison (Post 931242)
Or not and let the guys in NY change it for you.

So you will lack the nards to make the call right of wrong? Lazy!

dash_riprock Sun Apr 13, 2014 06:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by LRZ (Post 931092)
I don't know how "official" this is, but on Umpire-Empire, there's a post from Wendelstedt Umpire School. I don't know how to link to it, but here is the text:

"In determining whether a fielder drops the ball 'while in the act of making a throw following the catch' in accordance with Rule 2.00, the umpires will determine whether the fielder obtained possession of a ball in flight but dropped the ball while in the act of making a throw during the momentum of the catch. For example, if the shortstop, in an effort to turn a double play, throws to the second baseman, who drops the ball while in the act of drawing back his arm to make a throw to first base, the second baseman shall be adjudged to have had secure control of the ball and thus the ball shall be adjudged to have been caught by the second baseman. However, it shall not be adjudged to be a catch if, while in the act of making a throw during the momentum of the catch, the fielder loses possession of the ball in the transfer (e.g., flip from the glove) before he secures the ball with his throwing hand.

"Our emphasis: The 'flip' itself is not deemed a voluntary release, even though it may be a voluntary action. This is an update you will find in the 2014 Rules and Interpretations Manual. We have removed the exclusive interpretation offered for a number of year providing that it only be an attempted voluntary release. This is no longer the case. The release must be voluntary. Additionally, this interpretation has been merged with a tag of a base as well on the front end of a double play attempt. He must secure the ball in his throwing hand before it will be deemed secure possession was made."

First they say the release must be voluntary, then they say a transfer must be made to the throwing hand. And a flip is not a voluntary release? YGBSM. I have seen many "flips" that demonstrate complete control of the baseball including a voluntary and intentional release. They are making a mess of this.

And a catch has no momentum, the ball has momentum.

Robert E. Harrison Mon Apr 14, 2014 08:46am

Upon further review!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by UMP45 (Post 931509)
So you will lack the nards to make the call right of wrong? Lazy!

I was just saying, than in the show, if you don't call it the way in which they have instructed, it will be overturned as we have repeatedly seen in the challenges thus far.

PABlue Mon Apr 14, 2014 09:11am

In my opinion replay is really starting to do as much harm as good.

dash_riprock Mon Apr 14, 2014 10:07am

Quote:

Originally Posted by PABlue (Post 931683)
In my opinion replay is really starting to do as much harm as good.

I would rather see a rule requiring all disputes to be settled by the umpires on the field in one minute or less. Anyone not ready to resume the game after a minute is automatically ejected.

The other day I watched a replay of game 7 of the 1978 world series - Catfish Hunter vs. Don Sutton. 9 runs scored on 18 hits (21 baserunners). Time of game: 2:34.

hbk314 Mon Apr 14, 2014 02:02pm

Baseball’s New Strategy: Drop the Ball on Purpose | FanGraphs Baseball

Manny A Mon Apr 14, 2014 02:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by hbk314 (Post 931718)

Wow. After seeing the video replays, I'm surprised that there hasn't been a backlash by MLB managers or players on the rule change. Were they even part of the decision process for the change? Or was this done unilaterally without their input?

BTW, I'm also surprised that Scioscia stayed in the game after Hamilton's play was reviewed and ruled a No Catch. Once a play is reviewed and a final ruling is made, managers should stay in their dugouts and not come out to get any clarification, IMO. They can ask between innings if they want, but not waste more game time.

Manny A Tue Apr 15, 2014 10:29am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Manny A (Post 931726)
Wow. After seeing the video replays, I'm surprised that there hasn't been a backlash by MLB managers or players on the rule change.

Hate quoting myself, but after posting this yesterday, I saw this today on the web. Maybe managers and players ARE getting a little frustrated with the change.

Rangers manager ejected for replay dispute | FOX Sports on MSN

http://m.mlb.com/video/topic/6479266...arguing-review

jicecone Tue Apr 15, 2014 11:05am

MLB inserted IR into the game and created another sceniaro to use it, with this new definition of "catch".

Amazing, just freaking amazing!!!!!!!

APG Fri Apr 25, 2014 02:49pm

MLB clarifies rule on transfer of ball from glove to hand | MLB.com: News

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