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wish7694 Fri Apr 04, 2014 09:33am

What's the ruling?
 
2-2 game bottom of the 7th. Fed Rules. R2 is stealing third and slides head first into 3rd base. Catcher's throw hit's the runners helmet as the bill of the runners helmet simultaneously hits the base. The helmet goes flying and comes to rest over the ball. R2 reaches home safely.

Does the run score or is the ball dead? Would appreciate rule citation for opinion. Thanks for considering.

umpjim Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:13am

Quote:

Originally Posted by wish7694 (Post 930490)
2-2 game bottom of the 7th. Fed Rules. R2 is stealing third and slides head first into 3rd base. Catcher's throw hit's the runners helmet as the bill of the runners helmet simultaneously hits the base. The helmet goes flying and comes to rest over the ball. R2 reaches home safely.

Does the run score or is the ball dead? Would appreciate rule citation for opinion. Thanks for considering.

Run scores, live ball. There is no cite that would rule otherwise.

MD Longhorn Fri Apr 04, 2014 10:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by umpjim (Post 930501)
Run scores, live ball. There is no cite that would rule otherwise.

There is a rule site that would be SLIGHTLY different. Given that the helmet is on top of the ball - if the defender couldn't find it, an umpire might rule this a blocked ball. Of course ... the result is the same, run still scores.

Rich Ives Fri Apr 04, 2014 12:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by MD Longhorn (Post 930506)
There is a rule site that would be SLIGHTLY different. Given that the helmet is on top of the ball - if the defender couldn't find it, an umpire might rule this a blocked ball. Of course ... the result is the same, run still scores.

A blocked ball? In baseball?

rcaverly Fri Apr 04, 2014 04:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by umpjim (Post 930501)
Run scores, live ball. There is no cite that would rule otherwise.

I would cite NFHS 8.3.3f. But, I would judge the ball unplayable and dead.

If I judged the runner was attempting to advance home before the ball became unplayable, he scores on a one-base award beyond his last legally acquired base.

If I judge the runner was attempting to advance only after the ball became unplayable, then he stays at 3B.

CB 8.3.3 A and B deal with the ball becoming unplayable in a runner's uniform, but I have no problem stretching B and either moving the runner up or keeping him at 3B based on what I judge he was attempting to do when the ball became dead.

Rich Ives Fri Apr 04, 2014 04:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcaverly (Post 930540)
I would cite NFHS 8.3.3f. But, I would judge the ball unplayable and dead.

.

One heluva heavy helmet covering the ball. :D

DG Fri Apr 04, 2014 07:07pm

Ooo

Matt Sun Apr 06, 2014 12:38am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcaverly (Post 930540)
I would cite NFHS 8.3.3f. But, I would judge the ball unplayable and dead.

If I judged the runner was attempting to advance home before the ball became unplayable, he scores on a one-base award beyond his last legally acquired base.

If I judge the runner was attempting to advance only after the ball became unplayable, then he stays at 3B.

CB 8.3.3 A and B deal with the ball becoming unplayable in a runner's uniform, but I have no problem stretching B and either moving the runner up or keeping him at 3B based on what I judge he was attempting to do when the ball became dead.

How is it unplayable?

Mrumpiresir Sun Apr 06, 2014 05:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt (Post 930673)
How is it unplayable?

Suppose F5 is looking around for the ball and cannot find it, Would that be unplayable?

Matt Sun Apr 06, 2014 06:01pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mrumpiresir (Post 930703)
Suppose F5 is looking around for the ball and cannot find it, Would that be unplayable?

No.

rcaverly Sun Apr 06, 2014 06:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt (Post 930673)
How is it unplayable?

I wasn't there. I just visualized the ball somehow ending up under the helmet and the fielder not knowing where it was. I pictured the fielder frantically looking around for the ball while the base coach was yelling at his runner, having just had his "bell rung" and also oblivious to the location of the ball.

umpjim couldn't find a cite, so I offered what I found.

Rich Ives Sun Apr 06, 2014 07:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcaverly (Post 930711)
I wasn't there. I just visualized the ball somehow ending up under the helmet and the fielder not knowing where it was. I pictured the fielder frantically looking around for the ball while the base coach was yelling at his runner, having just had his "bell rung" and also oblivious to the location of the ball.

umpjim couldn't find a cite, so I offered what I found.

And F5's teammates weren't helping him?

rcaverly Sun Apr 06, 2014 08:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rich Ives (Post 930714)
And F5's teammates weren't helping him?

Sadly, no, they didn't.

Later, after the game, F7 tried his best to console F5, but to no avail. F5 stuck to his position that somehow the umpire was the cause of that one run scoring and tried to run both officials and some others over with his car in the parking lot.

F5 was subsequently arrested for reckless endangerment and jailed while waiting to make bail. Late that night when they went to finally release him from his cell, he had somehow disappeared without a trace. Others who were in close proximity to his cell said that they saw a bright light and subsequently lost consciousness. When they came to, he was gone.

F2 and F8 in an early morning press conference explained that they were no longer going to play baseball. Instead they were both going to begin studying transcendentalism in officiating, specifically rulings on third-world plays during night games.

Matt Sun Apr 06, 2014 08:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcaverly (Post 930715)
Sadly, no, they didn't.

Later, after the game, F7 tried his best to console F5, but to no avail. F5 stuck to his position that somehow the umpire was the cause of that one run scoring and tried to run both officials and some others over with his car in the parking lot.

F5 was subsequently arrested for reckless endangerment and jailed while waiting to make bail. Late that night when they went to finally release him from his cell, he had somehow disappeared without a trace. Others who were in close proximity to his cell said that they saw a bright light and subsequently lost consciousness. When they came to, he was gone.

F2 and F8 in an early morning press conference explained that they were no longer going to play baseball. Instead they were both going to begin studying transcendentalism in officiating, specifically rulings on third-world plays during night games.

F5 was Jesus? Must have also batted low in the order, since he couldn't hit a curveball.

umpjim Sun Apr 06, 2014 10:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcaverly (Post 930711)
I wasn't there. I just visualized the ball somehow ending up under the helmet and the fielder not knowing where it was. I pictured the fielder frantically looking around for the ball while the base coach was yelling at his runner, having just had his "bell rung" and also oblivious to the location of the ball.

umpjim couldn't find a cite, so I offered what I found.

I didn't say I couldn't find one. I said there wasn't one. Do we now need to kill a ball that the catcher can't find. Or a ball that is under a fielder. But your cite was creative and the argument should continue.

MD Longhorn Mon Apr 07, 2014 08:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by rcaverly (Post 930715)
Sadly, no, they didn't.

Later, after the game, F7 tried his best to console F5, but to no avail. F5 stuck to his position that somehow the umpire was the cause of that one run scoring and tried to run both officials and some others over with his car in the parking lot.

F5 was subsequently arrested for reckless endangerment and jailed while waiting to make bail. Late that night when they went to finally release him from his cell, he had somehow disappeared without a trace. Others who were in close proximity to his cell said that they saw a bright light and subsequently lost consciousness. When they came to, he was gone.

F2 and F8 in an early morning press conference explained that they were no longer going to play baseball. Instead they were both going to begin studying transcendentalism in officiating, specifically rulings on third-world plays during night games.

Well that escalated quickly.


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