SS barely in the same zip code as 2B in Tigers-Red Sox game.
 

I am getting senile in my old age because I cannot remember what inning in which it happened but the Red Sox completed a 4-6-3 DP (Actually the only out was the one at 2B; see what I mean about old age, :p.) last night where F6 was no where near 2B when taking the throw from F4 and then throw the ball to F3 for the force of the B/R at 1B and the BU at 2B called the Runner going from 1B to 2B out even though F6 never (with apologies to the late J. Dallas Shirley, BKB officials from the BKB Forum will understand my reference) came close to touching 2B.

As MTD, Jr., says MLB players are supposed to be the best players in the world, therefore, why should they be held to a lower standard for completing a DP than H.S. players? What say you? Hopefully someone can find a video of the play. Thanks.

MTD, Sr.

Not the same play but an even more graphic 'neighborhood' play from the same series

Video: Must C Crucial: Tigers make Red Sox pay after miscue | MLB.com


about the 1:18 point is the best shot of the neighborhood play (that's an awfully big neighborhood, more like a suburb)

Scrounge:

Thanks for the video. This the play I was I posting about. But I have to edit my original post. There was no DP on the play; just the out at 2B.

MTD, Sr.

http://fronheiser.net/play.jpg

He has the ball in this clip.

Not in the same zip code, huh? We can argue what U2 should've called here, but exaggeration based on what a *fan* sees watching real-time shouldn't be the basis for that.

Rich:

I don't have a dog in the fight in this game (I am a Yankees, Indians, and Pirates fan.) My beautiful, intelligent, and wonderful wife is the Tigers fan. But I was not watching the game as a fan but as one who is an umpire and watching the game from that standpoint. If one watches the video posted by Scrounge and watch it from the 1:15 mark you will see that there was no out at 2B.

MTD, Sr.

This is a screenshot FROM THAT VIDEO!

See how close the SS is? Is he "not in the same zip code?"

I saw that when I watched the video, too. Then, I kept watching (maybe not from the exact link in this thread), and there's a shot from about first base where he is clearly off the bag when he gets the ball.

Very interesting how much different the different angles are as the lens compresses the distance.

That angle makes it look a lot closer than it was, the side shot is better IMO:

http://l2.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/EA...odplay1016.jpg

http://images.ftw.usatoday.com/wp-co...10/badcall.gif

Rich:

I never said the F6 was NOT in the same zip code as 2B but that he was BARELY in the same zip code as the bag when he caught the ball on the throw from F4. The fact is, that when he caught the ball from F4 and he was not in contact with 2B and never did touch 2B after catching the throw from F4 and instead threw the ball to F3 at 1B. See Bob Jenkins post that follows this one.

MTD, Sr.

I'm not saying he was on the bag. I'm just saying it wasn't like he was 4 feet off of it, either.

True....I'd say more like 2 to 3 feet :D

You be the judge. (If the stupid image will display)

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2872/1...f62908ae_z.jpg

Oh, I always knew the runner was safe. I just don't think it's the end of the world that the call was missed.

I can't *wait* for replay so people realize that getting the call 100% right isn't necessarily the desired outcome every time.

Rich:

???? We are supposed to get the call correct every time (at least try to get the call correct every time). And as I stated in my OP, MLB players are the best players in the world. Why should they be held to a lower expectation of performing the game that we would expect of a H.S. player? This call changed how the rest of the inning was played. Instead of runners on a 1B and 2B with zero outs, there was only a runner on 1B with one out.

MTD, Sr.

When I saw this play live I thought the runner might have been called safe at 2B. This was a big play too. What is the expectation/ruling for distance from the bag in this situation?

on the bag = out
not on the bag = safe

I'm really not talking about this play in particular. There was a collision in the plate in extra innings earlier in the postseason which was treated as a routine out on the field. Possible, however, that the catcher, in bracing for the collision, never actually tagged the runner. I'll sit back with a bowl of popcorn the first time a play like THAT is challenged and overturned.

This is the play Rich is referring to:

Video: Must C Cannon: Beltran's amazing throw saves game | MLB.com

<iframe src='http://wapc.mlb.com/shared/video/embed/embed.html?content_id=31126159&topic_id=11493214&w idth=400&height=224&property=mlb' width='400' height='224' frameborder='0'>Your browser does not support iframes.</iframe>

The best look starts at the 2:00 mark.

Check out this related article about this exact play and how replay might fix it :-) They also suggest implementing the FPSR in MLB

Y! SPORTS

Safe!

Insofar as still pictures can give us solid evidence, it looks like a tag to me:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BWWT7arCUAEZ9OI.jpg:large

That angle's as deceptive as the one Rich posted for the neighborhood play. If you watch the video, especially a second or two after that screenshot is taken, it's clear no tag occurred.

"They also suggest implementing the FPSR in MLB".

And when this happens then and only then will the neighborhood play no longer be called. You may like that but, that's Baseball.

The call that's correct for the game isn't always the call that's technically correct by the rule. Or, at least it hasn't been.

Wrong. On the bag=out. Off the bag=out.

He WAS in the zip code, but when he caught the ball he was LEAVING the zip code. :p

JJ

Actually it's clear that it is inconclusive.

I watch quite a bit of MLB and I was really surprised to see the neighborhood calls. I'd bet I haven't seen more than one a year for quite a while now. TV replay and slo-mo (not official but nonetheless damning) has pretty much killed it. There's very much a focus on the correctness of calls. Times are a changin' - it's time to go along for the ride.

No.

Was the play argued? Were there ejections? I'm sure the players, manager, staff all have a dog in the fight. They obviously expect that to be an out. I didn't see the game where this play occurred.

I'm not arguing that the "correct" call is safe....but if they don't come unglued about it, and trust me I'm sure they saw it the exact same way that we did, this is an example of where replay is bad in baseball

I agree. The play to me should be an out. I'm just saying there was clearly not a tag, so instant replay would have to overturn it, unfortunately. Unless they make a rule change.

After the game, even Mattingly said that he was out and he would not use instant replay to change the call, even if it was available. That's the game.

Indeed it is and while that's what Mattingly would do, I'm sure there are plenty of managers who will challenge to keep a base runner in scoring position and save an out.

And once one manager starts challenging this type of call, the others will be forced to do so as not to play at a disadvantage.

I'm rather surprised by that response, given that what started it all was a boot by Pedroia. If he had fielded it cleanly, I can see some justification for not wanting to challenge. But because Pedroia had to rush the throw which, IMO, led to Drew coming off early so that he could get a good throw lane to first, the call should have been challenged.

You guys are talking about two different plays.

Sorry; that's what I get for staying on topic.

{Edited to add} But my point is still relevant. In the Cards/Dodgers play, there was no boot. The throw was on target, got there well before the runner, Molina was in position to make the play, and the runner crashed into him while he held the ball. So the out call is justifiable, even if technically a tag never happened. I can fully understand why Mattingly wouldn't challenge it.

Now, if Molina had bobbled the ball and then secured it just a split second before the collision, or if the throw was off-line and didn't afford Molina the opportunity to turn toward the runner, I would expect a challenge in that case, the same as I would have expected a challenge in the OP play.

But this is all academic for now. We have no idea how things will change once the challenge system is put into place. It's easy for Mattingly to say what he said since he had no opportunity to throw the red flag.