Agreed if the "other" umpires are 150% certain that a rule was misapplied.

I give benefit of doubt to my partner making the call. Perhaps he saw something different then me.

Let's takes umpjm's simple example of a pitched ball going out of play and the PU awards 2 bases.

I step in and say no he only gets one base. We then converse and my partner says "Pete F2 kicked the ball into DBT while chasing the errant pitch which is the reason I awarded 2 bases".

Now we as a group look like s**t and give the appearance we do not know what the h**l we are doing. In addition your partner will give you that look like "stay out of my business unless I ask for your help" Our credibility will be questioned the remainder of the game.

Let the manager do his job if he doesn't like or agree with a rule interp.

In a nusthell, unless it's a "no brainer" the other umpires should not say or do anything unless the manager lodges a protest or the umpire who made the call requests assistance.

Pete Booth

Pete, I don't mean that you change your partners call, uninvited or unsolicited. The only time I would see doing that is if your partner doesn't see the ball on the ground on a tag play and you do.

I don't have a problem, if I have made an error applying a rule, if my partner comes to me to discuss it.

You STILL don't do it in this case.

Even if you do not ask him to?

To me this is no different then the BU making a call at first base on a swipe tag / pulled foot. You as PU clearly see that F3's foot is off the bag but your partner calls him out. Unless your partner comes to you for assistance, you keep quiet.

Pete Booth

I am at the point in my career where I am going to interject myself in my partner's play if I am 150% certain a RULE has been kicked. [With that said, it does not happen very often.] Admittedly, part of the reason is that almost every high school and American Legion game I umpire, I am the crew chief and "most experienced" (note I did not say "oldest!") member of the crew.

I'll give two examples (one where my crew chief in MiLB interjected in one of my calls and one where I interjected in my partner's play).

1) MiLB game. R1. Ground ball to F6 on a hit-and-run. F6 sprints to second base in an attempt to retire R1, but I call R1 "safe". (There was no argument, at all, about the "safe" call...R1 was clearly safe.) F6 then threw onto F3 in an attempt to retire the B/R, but the throw went into the stands. I say, "time! You (R1) third base; you (B/R) second base!"

As soon as I finished, my crew chief took a few steps toward me and said, "Matt..." and that was all he had to say. As soon as he said my name I knew I had screwed up. I stood up tall, looked at R1 (who was now on third base) and said, "you score!"

The DT manager came out, and we had a long discussion/explanation. But, to his credit, once he learned the rule (we had to teach him) he did not get ejected.

I am very grateful that my crew chief interjected himself immediately, so that I could correct myself immediately, rather than us "get together" after the play which would have, IMO, given the impression that one umpire was overruling another umpire.

2) Legion with OBR. I'm on the plate and also the CC. R1, R2. Ground ball on the left side of the infield. F5 dives to his left to try to field the ball, but the ball is a good 1 to 2 feet out of his reach. Ball then hits R2. F6 is positioned behind R2 and is in position to easily field the ball and possibly make a play. (Prior to the pitch, F5 was playing off the line and F6 was pinching over into the hole).

There was no doubt that the ball hit R2; the ball clearly hit him and clearly changed directions, significantly. (The ball ended up deflecting into foul territory down the left field line). There was also absolutely no doubt that F6 was in position to field the ball had it not hit R2.

I waited and waited for U3 to call "interference," but he did not. This was a major play at a very critical part of the game. (Close game in late innings.) I decided that it would be much, much easier to kill the play immediately rather than to get the crew together after the play and then have to "reverse" ourselves and call runners back out of the dugout, etc.. So, I stepped out in front of home plate and yelled (and gave the proper mechanics), "time! time! time! That's interference! you're out! You (R1) back to second base, you (B/R) to first base!"

And, yes, I had a heated argument with the OT head coach. (His argument was, first, that it was not interference because it had passed the diving third baseman. But, when I asked, "did you see the shortstop" ready to field the ball, he said "that doesn't matter." So, I then had to explain the exception to the rule to him. Since he didn't like my explanation of the exception, and since he, like most coaches, didn't actually know the rules (so he really couldn't argue rules with me), he switched his argument to "that's not your call," which I expected him to say at some point.)

IMHO, when a coach argues, "that's not your call," it means he really doesn't have anything legitimate further to argue about.

BTW, after the game, U3 said, "thanks, I froze."

(Edited to Add: I should add that after the ball had hit R2 and before I called interference, the DT coaching staff was already screaming "interference". So, no matter what, we were going to have an argument after the play. Furthermore, I knew U3 well enough to know that when the DT head coach would have come out to argue, that U3 would have come to me for help. Of that, I am 150% sure, too. So, when I called "interference," I was already sure that if I did not call interference while the play was still on-going, I was going to have to do it after a "crew huddle" after the play.)

I probably wouldn't have called interference, but you're right, it definitely is.

[QUOTE]Just want to understand your point completely.

Using the example I gave

Your partner the BU calls out on a call at first base where F3 had to stretch. You as PU clearly see the pulled foot. Your partner does not request your assistance.

In that case you are going to over-rule your partner without being asked?

If so, I have never been taught this.

Also, your second example is not a case of interjecting yourself in your partner's call. There was NO call at all and all umpires have authority to call interference.

Pete Booth

Your play is judgment, Pete.

The others are rules.

And, I agree with lawump on his examples.

Yes, we are talking rules and interpretations. Not pulled foot calls or anything involving judgement. If I am improperly awarding bases, I want my partner to clue me in. If I didn't see something that happened that changes the way a rule is interpreted, I want to know. Don't we all? :confused:

If you are 150% a rule is being screwed up (and you're not working LL), fix it (your method may vary depending on the sitch and whether play is live).
If you are 150% a judgement call has been screwed up, keep your trap shut until asked.

[QUOTE=PeteBooth;904110]On the pulled foot at F3...no. No rule (or rule interpretation) issue at all. That is a judgment call. Might be a "gross miss" judgment call...but a judgment call, none-the-less.

In my second example, if I had done what I did in a MiLB game (when I was a MiLB umpire) I would have had my ass handed to me on a silver platter by U3 after the game. In the Legion game situation I posted, I, in my opinion, was clearly stepping on U3's toes because I knew he clearly was frozen (he had a deer-in-the-headlights look).