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Old Tue Jul 30, 2013, 04:03am
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Rays vs Redsox Play at the Plate (Video)

Tough call costs Red Sox first place in AL East | For The Win

Not the best angle to look at this one.
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Old Tue Jul 30, 2013, 04:10am
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I'm not sure why he allowed himself to get so far around toward 1st base side. Even if you're expecting a swipe tag, I don't think you would want to be THAT far past 3BX ..at least he owned up to it afterwards but this one hurts. Division 1-run game between 2 contenders.

Last edited by rbmartin; Tue Jul 30, 2013 at 04:18am.
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Old Tue Jul 30, 2013, 08:59am
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Originally Posted by rbmartin View Post
I'm not sure why he allowed himself to get so far around toward 1st base side. Even if you're expecting a swipe tag, I don't think you would want to be THAT far past 3BX ..at least he owned up to it afterwards but this one hurts. Division 1-run game between 2 contenders.
I'm not a baseball guy so I came here to see if the positioning was correct. It seems the standard angle would be from the 3rd base side. There are more calls for replay because of this play. What kind of issues would replay on safe/out calls like this cause?

Replay is good but it is such a slippery slope.
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Old Tue Jul 30, 2013, 09:14am
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Originally Posted by rbmartin View Post
Even if you're expecting a swipe tag, I don't think you would want to be THAT far past 3BX
I personally wouldn't want to, but that's what they've been doing for a long time at that level. MLB tends to take these calls with a view over the left hip, not tied to the foul lines like most of us do. They do the same thing at second on balls coming from the outfield on a double. If everything went as expected, he'd be in a great spot and probably would have nailed the call and we'd never know about it. There's the downside - he still has to adjust

Look at the call in the Dodgers game the other day by Marquez (link). He was almost in fair territory when the swipe was made. Again, not something I'd do, but that's what they do and it works. I think most of us would be straight on 3BLX, but Marquez swung around with that same view of the tag to appear right over the left hip, nailed the safe call, then the play develops into a little dance.
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Old Tue Jul 30, 2013, 10:03am
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I know the clinicians will go ballistic over this, but I think he would have had a better look from the 1st base line extended. The view he had on this play has to be impaired when the catcher moves left to make the tag.
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Old Tue Jul 30, 2013, 10:25am
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Originally Posted by SE Minnestoa Re View Post
I know the clinicians will go ballistic over this, but I think he would have had a better look from the 1st base line extended. The view he had on this play has to be impaired when the catcher moves left to make the tag.
why would clinicians go ballistic? It turns out to be a "crash" play, so 1BX is the right spot.

the question is, can you read that in time, or did he get too far to the right to make it back, etc.
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Old Tue Jul 30, 2013, 11:53am
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Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
why would clinicians go ballistic? It turns out to be a "crash" play, so 1BX is the right spot.

the question is, can you read that in time, or did he get too far to the right to make it back, etc.
I'm not trying to be controversial, just want to ask the question because I don't know. With R3 and a sacrifice fly likely in that situation is the correct/standard positioning 3BX (where he was)? I guess what I'm asking is why he had to read that? Would the normal positioning be 3BX and then try moving closer to behind the plate or 1BX extended?
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Old Tue Jul 30, 2013, 12:09pm
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Some of you more senior folks can correct me if I'm wrong but I've found I have the best result by setting up 1BX (I stay there for probably 75% of plays) and then rotating to 3BX only if the throw is up the 3rd baseline which often results in a swipe tag attempt. I had a few older guys I work with say that looks fine to them.
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Old Tue Jul 30, 2013, 12:45pm
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That was the "in" thing to do for a while, then people started from the point, and now most tend to start at 3BLX.

I think it just stems from players tending to slide outside regardless of the catcher in most situations. Everyone sees the MLB plays where a player slides outside when it makes sense, he lifts his hand up to dodge the reaching glove, barely gets around, and then swipes the plate with his pinky. It looks cool.
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Old Tue Jul 30, 2013, 01:27pm
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Originally Posted by Rufus View Post
I'm not trying to be controversial, just want to ask the question because I don't know. With R3 and a sacrifice fly likely in that situation is the correct/standard positioning 3BX (where he was)? I guess what I'm asking is why he had to read that? Would the normal positioning be 3BX and then try moving closer to behind the plate or 1BX extended?
you have to read the catcher and decide. And, it can change in an instant as this one did.

For most of us, most of the time, there's not going to be a crash, so 3BX is the spot to be most of the time. But, there's that 1 in 20 (or so) where 1BX is better.

In pro ball, it's a higher percentage than that (but it seems to be going down).

Suppose the umpire was 1BX and the catcher didn't shift to block the plate but just swung his arm to tag. Then, the umpire would (might) have missed that and we'd all be discussing how 3BX is better. Sometimes the play changes too fast to be in the right spot for both possibilities.
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Old Tue Jul 30, 2013, 02:41pm
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Thanks Bob, was having trouble picturing how 1BX would be worse and your example helped.
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Old Wed Jul 31, 2013, 06:13am
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Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
Suppose the umpire was 1BX and the catcher didn't shift to block the plate but just swung his arm to tag. Then, the umpire would (might) have missed that and we'd all be discussing how 3BX is better. Sometimes the play changes too fast to be in the right spot for both possibilities.
If he was on 1BLX we wouldn't be having this conversation. I don't think you see a swipe tag any better from 3BLX. Seems like they play the low percentages in case of one call.
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Old Wed Jul 31, 2013, 01:53pm
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another missed last night

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins View Post
why would clinicians go ballistic? It turns out to be a "crash" play, so 1BX is the right spot.

the question is, can you read that in time, or did he get too far to the right to make it back, etc.
That makes sense although it seems lately more and more plate umpires are having trouble seeing over the left hip - another one missed last night - saw on sports center this morning - he was in the same position as the umpire in this play 3BX and had moved around towards the field etc.,

I don't remember the teams, think it was Davidson?? behind the plate?

Thanks
David
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Old Thu Aug 01, 2013, 12:39pm
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Originally Posted by David B View Post
That makes sense although it seems lately more and more plate umpires are having trouble seeing over the left hip - another one missed last night - saw on sports center this morning - he was in the same position as the umpire in this play 3BX and had moved around towards the field etc.,

I don't remember the teams, think it was Davidson?? behind the plate?

Thanks
David
Think it may have been Marty Foster (who took a direct hit on the left forearm later in the game, had to leave for x-rays, but thankfully didn't have it broken). He was 3BX, shaded toward 1B, on a bang-banger swipe tag on Uggla (no collision as in OP). Can't say that 1BX would have had a better look or not.
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Old Tue Aug 06, 2013, 01:07am
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What bothers me is that 98% of the media is regarding this call as a gross error. From any angle, the play was dang close, IMHO.
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