Miami / St.Louis.....not a force at third

Multiple Sports

Saw the play on Baseball Tonight. The Marlin player bunted was called out and there was no force at third......anybody be willing to put the video up for all to see.....

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Not sure how to embed MLB.com videos.

MIA@STL -- Turner bunts into double play

David B

Multiple Sports wrote
Saw the play on Baseball Tonight. The Marlin player bunted was called out and there was no force at third......anybody be willing to put the video up for all to see.....

I'll give him it was a crazy play, didn't look like a fair ball to me, (went back and edited to say it did look fair on second look from where F2 was standing)
but if he called the batter out then why did he let them make the out call at 3rd? But, the runner ran past the bag and probably would have been tagged out - so crazy all around.

My question is what do you do as PU in this situation? You have the out on the BR, but what about the runner at 3rd?

Interesting

Thanks
David

johnnyg08

David B wrote
I'll give him it was a crazy play, didn't look like a fair ball to me, (went back and edited to say it did look fair on second look from where F2 was standing)
but if he called the batter out then why did he let them make the out call at 3rd? But, the runner ran past the bag and probably would have been tagged out - so crazy all around.

My question is what do you do as PU in this situation? You have the out on the BR, but what about the runner at 3rd?

Interesting

Thanks
David

Seemed like the only person who knew what was going on was the plate umpire. U3 incorrectly calls a guy out at 3rd base for a nonexistent force out and U1 calls batter/runner out again at 1st base. Odd play. As PU I don't know what else you can do from a mechanics standpoint.

Multiple Sports

I'm going to be critical of the base umpires......are they aware of the PU called???

I'm not a fan of instant replay, but darn this is a situation where umpire communication ( or lack of it ) hurt the Marlins.... But I guess you can argue
Why didn't base runner going from 2nd to 3rd see situation and stay on third....

Hey what do I know, I'm working three 11u games today....😃😃😃😃

Rich Ives

The announcers were right - the tag on the BR was made with an empty glove. Therefore the batter wasn't out at the plate. There may have been a verbal by U1 that overrode the out signal.

jicecone

PU points fair ball (Correct) and then signals out on tag by catcher. (Well what he thought was a tag and what the stupid announcer thought was interference).

The base umpires reacted to instantaneous plays and should not be subjected to critical evaluations by a 11u umpire. Maybe next year when you do 12 yr olds.

Sooo, it should have ended up with runners at 2nd and 3rd and one out, but somehow the either the PU was able to convince the HC that the right call was made or the HC figured his team wasn't getting out of the basement anyway and figured he could get to the local pub earlier.

Multiple Sports

How about in 7 years when I get 18 yr old games ?????

All the 12u were taken otherwise I would have got them !!!!!😃😃😃😃

jicecone

Multiple Sports wrote
How about in 7 years when I get 18 yr old games ?????

All the 12u were taken otherwise I would have got them !!!!!😃😃😃😃

Deal!

bluehair

Rich Ives wrote
The announcers were right - the tag on the BR was made with an empty glove. Therefore the batter wasn't out at the plate. There may have been a verbal by U1 that overrode the out signal.

U1 can verbally override PU/crew chief's out call during a live ball play? How do you figure?

B was out on the play at the plate (it looked to me that F2 initially had an empty glove on B, but then his right hand (with the ball) pushed onto the glove while the glove was still contacting B...but hard to tell).

CCS says that R2 was ruled out for abandonment...go figure.

dash_riprock

bluehair wrote
B was out on the play at the plate (it looked to me that F2 initially had an empty glove on B, but then his right hand (with the ball) pushed onto the glove while the glove was still contacting B...but hard to tell).

Even if you saw it correctly the B/R would not be out.

bluehair

dash_riprock wrote
Even if you saw it correctly the B/R would not be out.

F2 has ball in rt hand inside of glove and tags R = out.
F2 has ball in rt hand contacting outside of glove and tags R, I still have an out.

GA Umpire

Rich Ives wrote
The announcers were right - the tag on the BR was made with an empty glove. Therefore the batter wasn't out at the plate. There may have been a verbal by U1 that overrode the out signal.

It looks like the ball is in the glove to me.

Video | MLB.com Multimedia

dash_riprock

bluehair wrote
F2 has ball in rt hand inside of glove and tags R = out.
F2 has ball in rt hand contacting outside of glove and tags R, I still have an out.

There is no "electricity" on the tag of a runner. The ball must be securely held by the hand or glove that tags the runner.

bluehair

dash_riprock wrote
There is no "electricity" on the tag of a runner. The ball must be securely held by the hand or glove that tags the runner.

So, F2 has ball in rt hand inside of glove then tags R with glove is not out? Good luck with that....good luck with either no tag call.

dash_riprock

bluehair wrote
So, F2 has ball in rt hand inside of glove then tags R with glove is not out? Good luck with that....good luck with either no tag call.

That is an out. This is what you described in an earlier post:

" it looked to me that F2 initially had an empty glove on B, but then his right hand (with the ball) pushed onto the glove while the glove was still contacting B.."

That is not a tag.

bluehair

dash_riprock wrote
That is an out.

Why is that an out? The ball is in the rt hand, and the tag is made with the left/gloved hand. I can only assume that you consider the ball in both hands (even though it isn't) and eligible for a tag.

IMO, the ball in the right hand pressed/trapped on the outside of the glove (instead of the inside) is the same. Either by rule or by practicality.

Multiple Sports

dash_riprock wrote
There is no "electricity" on the tag of a runner. The ball must be securely held by the hand or glove that tags the runner.

The last time "electricity" counted was in baserunners or tag in my neighbors backyard about 39.years ago......😃😃😃😃

dash_riprock

bluehair wrote
Why is that an out? The ball is in the rt hand, and the tag is made with the left/gloved hand. I can only assume that you consider the ball in both hands (even though it isn't) and eligible for a tag.

You keep changing your words. Here is your quote, which I agreed was a tag (out):

"So, F2 has ball in rt hand inside of glove then tags R with glove"

Of course that's a tag. Catchers do that all the time to prevent the ball from being knocked loose.

IMO, the ball in the right hand pressed/trapped on the outside of the glove (instead of the inside) is the same. Either by rule or by practicality.

No it isn't. The difference is, the ball is not securely held in the hand or glove that is making the tag.

bluehair

Catchers do use this technique, all the time. But they do not use the glove to hold the ball. They use their glove to cushion the impact of the tag. Very little of the ball (if any) is even touching leather (ball is not glove held). You seem to be hung up on the hand making contact with the runner must hold the ball by rule, yet you do not require it in this case. But you do require it in the other case even though in neither case is the ball held by the glove. Why? What is the difference? Seems arbitrary to me.

Any two handed tag is good enough for me.