MLB weather rules
 

What rules does MLB use when determining to delay or end a game. I'm watching the Tigers-LAA game and there was huge lightening bolt in the background they played on. At any other level I know of this game would be delayed or ended (14-6 in the 9th) and everyone would be cleared. In college, high school, rec ball and everything else, this would not be allowed, why is MLB so different?

This doesn't exactly answer the question, but maybe it does: Kids playing baseball with aluminum bats out in an open field is slightly different than anything going on in a stadium in an urban setting where the opponents travelled 2,300 miles to get there.

Also, typical park district liability and ThorGuard.

The MLB crews likely have the assistance of professional meteorologists to help them make decisions. We simply err on the side of safety every time.

Umm, you think that an aluminum bat is a greater conductor than the 100 light posts, score boards, monitors, etc. with miles and miles of wires running under the stadium?

A) He didn't say that...

B) You didn't read the entire post.

I've played football games with lightning in the sky when I would never have continued a baseball or softball game - solely due to information from Thorguard, which would not have been present at your typical baseball game.

Even with Thorguard (and similar), if I see or hear lightning I stop the baseball game. If the alarm goes off, I stop the game (even if I dont' see / hear the lightning). Either one is sufficient.

You can hear lightning? Amazing!!! ;)

You can see lightning that's 30 miles away.

We use ThorGuard at two parks I umpire at. Our policy is simple. If you see lightning, hear thunder, or the the system goes off, you are DONE for a minimum 30 minutes from the last time it is seen or heard. We also say from when the system deactivates as an extra precaution.

Nope - but no one is holding the light posts. And they're grounded and prepared for a strike.

If lightning causes the sound aren't you thus hearing lightning? :D

But lightning doesn't cause thunder.

Electrical discharge causes both lightning (visual) and thunder (audible) - the two occur simultaneously.

You can hear the effects of it, which is obviously what I meant. If you have a better point to make, please do so.

Otherwise, I stand by my comment. Feel free to do it differently in your games.

The first part was humor.
The second, however... if you have the machine, use the machine --- it will detect potential issues sooner than you might if you only have visual and audible evidence to go by ... and it will also tell you lightning you may have seen 30 miles from it's source may or may not be an issue.

If you don't have the machine - I wholely agree with the strategy of waiting 30 minutes after the last visible discharge.

I have had several instnaces where the lightning was relatively close and the machine hasn't gone off. I'll continue to use both items.

FWIW, UIL policy is to follow the 30 second flash to bang with no mention of a lightning detector. I err on the side of caution with lightning. If the lightning detector is going off, we go by that if the 30 second flash to bang has not been observed. If the 30 second flash to bang has been observed, I don't care what the detector says.

If I had my way, any sight of lightning or thunder would result in a suspension of activities but that might not be so practical for this area.

If I don't have a detector (which means every field i can think of right now with only a single exception), I go by 30 seconds (about 6 1/2 miles) as well.

Westherbug
 

I found an app for my iPhone called Weatherbug, it's free. One of the options on the app is called "Spark". It gives an approximate distance of the closest lightning to your location. Does anyone has any history with this app? The local LL's use it as the BODs walk around the park during possible inclement weather.

BTW, my keyboard is misspelling today.

Actually, lightning DOES cause thunder by super heating the air and some other scientific stuff (how's that for Mr Technical?). If there were no lightning there would be no thunder.

JJ

The electrical discharge IS lightning and lightning produces the thunder. The electrical discharge can occur from a cloud that is 40,000 feet above ground. Lightning strikes randomly and from 40,000 feet it can strike anywhere. 30 second flash to bang is no comfort. Standing next to a grounded light pole is like standing next to tree, bad place to be if lightning strikes it. Lightning is not particularly attracted to aluminum bats. It could miss all the light poles and strike the ground near a fielder and cause a death due to ground step potential.

If you can see lightning striking or hear thunder it is close enough to stop an amateur game.

MLB is whole different subject from amateur baseball from a lot of standpoints including approaching bad weather.

If I used 30 seconds flash to bang, I'd lose my registration. Around here, they teach "if you can see it or hear it, it can kill you."

I think this is the better approach. My state is hard headed about some of these things, including having no limit on outdoor activities when the heat index is above a certain point. It's going to take somebody dying for the policy to be revisited I fear.

My wife tells me I don't hear well anyways, but I suspect I'd have trouble hearing thunder that was caused by a lightning flash that was over 30 seconds away at Mach 1.

Just last weekend, I was at an amusement park with my daughter when a storm was approaching. I tried the "count to 30" method. By around the low 20s, I got bored and decide I wasn't going to hear it. When I did eventually hear it, it was very faint. But, it wasn't 5 minutes later that the storm was right on top of us.

I think this is why more and more associations are going to the "if you can hear it, it's too close" model. Unless you happen to be looking at it when it flashes from that distance, you won't know when to start counting. Since most officials are concentrating on other duties, we aren't able to look at the sky too. And if the thunder is loud enough that you notice it while you are performing your other duties, it's time to seek shelter.

NOAA Coach’s and Sports Official’s Guide to Lightning Safety...
 

Might be of interest: NOAA Coach’s and Sports Official’s Guide to Lightning Safety

http://www.crh.noaa.gov/grr/educatio...CoachGuide.pdf

Says to stop activity on any thunder for at least 30 minutes from last thunder. No 30 second rule.

The 30 second "flash-bang" gives you about 6 mile protection. The "hear thunder" gives you about 10. The "see it" should be used with a grain of salt at night because lightning can be seen a long way away at night.

And I guess my point was that I find it unlikely that I will hear thunder while I'm officiating if it's not within the 6 miles of the 30-second flash-to-bang. I could barely hear it on Saturday and I was actively listening for it. If I had other things I was watching/listening for, I doubt I'd notice it.

Do what Lee Trevino once said--stand out in the open holding up a 1-iron, because even God can't hit a 1-iron! :D

Here's a blog report from a meteorologist who is loosely affiliated with the Minnesota Twins. From what he writes, the policy boils down to leaving it up to the umpires to decide when to suspend play. He provides suggestions on how that should change, based upon an incident last year in Texas.

Why Major League Baseball needs to update severe weather policy | Updraft | Minnesota Public Radio News

Are you gonna send the whole stadium to their cars. Even when we suspend games and announce to go to cover in HS we still have most people milling around and seated in the stands, unless the rain forces them to move. Difficult dilemma.

Anyone stupid enough to be still sitting in the stands while lightning is nearby deserves to be zapped.

Does that include everybody at the Rangers game?

Yes, but for a different reason--they're Rangers fans. :p

At a pro game, I would think the PA would advise fans to seek shelter inside the stadium concession areas or whatever else is available away from the open seats.

That said, how much responsibility does the home team have for the fans anyway? They take reasonable precautions to prevent fans from falling down the stairs, getting hit by batted balls during pre-game BP, etc., etc. But making them vacate their seats during a storm? Really? An announcement to seek shelter is enough, IMO. If they want to be stupid and stay out there, that's on them.

If someone had gotten hurt in that Texas Ranger's strike, it would have been the Ranger's and MLB's responsibility, imo, since play wasn't suspended. But once you suspend play and advise people to take cover, I think the home team has done as much as they can.

Read the back of your ticket. Lightning strikes are considered an act of God beyond the control of the local club and MLB.

Why is that? It's not as if the fans aren't allowed to move at their own free will. Nobody forces them to stay in their seats to continue watching. Should the local police and Highway Safety Administration suspend driving in Oklahoma as tornado warnings sound?

Watching a baseball game comes with a few potential dangers. Teams advise fans of those potential problems with warning signs, announcements, etc. It's up to the fans, not the league, to take the necessary steps to use their better judgment.

I was working a tournament one time where we delayed a last inning for 5 hours because of a strict "if you can see it, we're not playing" policy. The "lightning" that could be seen was reflections of lightning flashes in the 50,000 foot cloud tops of a cell that, after 5 hours, was over 200 miles away. However, an unrelenting policy kept us off the field until we could resume the national championship game at 12:05 am. Ugh!

The printing on the back of the ticket is worth about the paper it's printed on. It certainly isn't going to do the team or the league a lot of good against a negligence claim.

One of those dangers shouldn't be being struck by lightning from a storm that has already produced a lightning bolt while the game is going on. A reasonable person suspends play during a thunderstorm. The league through its agents (the umpires) was negligent in not doing so. This negligence enticed the fans into a dangerous situation.

Would that convince a jury? I wouldn't bet against it, particularly if someone had been killed.

Grounding a light post means nothing for lightning safety. If you are touching, or near when lighting strikes you are subject to injury or death. Thus fences are bad to be near as well, if in the dugout with a fence in front during a delay, stay away from the fence.