Ohio team schedules 2 quick games to get ejected player back for state
 

I don't have time to format this properly now, but I'm amazed that the OHSAA even allows this nonsense. What's worse is the reaction of the coach who condoned what the player did.

I'll format it later when I get time (unless another moderator can do it for me).

--Rich



Bending rules to the extreme?

Badin's Nick Browning will play in the state tournament after all

HIGH SCHOOL BASEBALL

Tom Archdeacon

The coach has tempered some of his more critical comments from the other day, but he didn't go back on one defiant promise.
Hamilton Badin High School was in the process of fighting back from a 6-1 deficit to Johnstown Northridge in the Division III baseball regional championship late Friday night when star center fielder Nick Browning was involved in a disputed play that still is stirring controversy.
Browning led off the top of the eighth inning getting hit by a pitch. He stole second and then, of his own volition, tried to steal third but was called out by longtime Dayton umpire Jeff Klepacz in what was a split-second slide-and-tag play.
The emotion of the moment prompted Browning to pop up, flip his helmet and, according to Klepacz, yell "Bulls--! That was bulls--!"
Klepacz promptly ejected the Badin senior and that's when the real dispute began.
Folks from Badin - especially head coach Brion Treadway - quickly realized if Browning was thrown out, he would be forced - per Ohio High School Athletic Association rules - to serve an immediate two-game suspension.
And if Badin came back to win this regional title game (which it did, 9-6), the team would go to the state tournament, but Browning would not be permitted to play in Thursday's semifinal or in the title game.
That spurred Treadway's on-field argument. He claimed Browning's outburst wasn't directed at Klepacz, but the veteran umpire disagreed.
"Look, I umpire Dragons games and guys on those teams swear all the time, but it's not directed at me," Klepacz said Tuesday. "If a guy there says the same thing but doesn't try to show up the umpires that's fine.
"But in high school we are specifically told by the OHSAA that if someone cusses, gets out of line or is unsportsmanlike, they're done. So I had a job to do and I did it. Period."
Treadway said he tried to no avail to engage Klepacz in discussion: "I felt it was a heat of the moment deal for Nick and the umpire. I wish the ump would have said, 'One more word and you're gone.' Or said, 'Coach, if you don't take him out, I'm gonna throw him out.' But (Klepacz) really wouldn't go into anything with me. There was no human interaction."
Klepacz said he tried "to be professional" about it, even when he claims "some of the Badin parents came down along the third-base line and started cussing at me and calling me names."
After the game, Tread-way offered some pointed criticisms of Klepacz.
"For that umpire to take away the opportunity of a senior leader to play in the state Final Four just really disturbs me," he told our reporter, Rick Cassano. "Quite honestly, I don't know how that guy goes to sleep at night with the way he acted."
Later, he referred to Klepacz's actions as "an unfortunate power trip of an umpire."
Klepacz thought the personal attack was out of bounds and off base: "I'm not some schlepp pushing a broom all day and then coming to a game not knowing what I'm doing. I do have credentials to be out there."
That he does.
He has umpired for 30 years, done Division I college games - including NCAA tournament play-in games - for 20 of them, worked nearly three dozen Dragons games and three Ohio high school state title games.
Before that he was a three-time All-City player at Wilbur Wright High School, played college ball at Sinclair Community College and the University of Dayton, minor league ball and is in the Dayton Baseball Hall of Fame.
Treadway was a great prep star, as well, and played college ball. Tuesday, when pressed about his postgame comments, he softened his public stance about Klepacz:
"Emotions were running hot for all of us. I wish I hadn't said anything. I've got the utmost respect for that umpire and all of them. I think they have a difficult job to do. I certainly didn't want to paint him in a bad light."
His mea culpa, though, came after he had followed through on another pointed promise after Friday's game.
He said because Browning was such a good kid - "he's the kind of kid I'd want my daughters to grow up and date, he's just outstanding" - and because he means so much to the team, he would schedule two quick games before the state tournament and sit his star for them.
That way he could play Browning at state.
And that's what Badin did the past two days.
On Monday the Rams played a quickly-arranged, five-inning affair with Roger Bacon, a team that already had lost 20 of 26 games, had ended its season 11 days earlier and was only able to field nine players. The game went five innings, Bacon got one hit and Badin, resting many regulars, won 10-0.
Tuesday at noon, Badin played fellow GCL powerhouse Cincinnati Moeller - headed to state in the DI competition - and lost 11-1 in five innings.
Although Treadway had told Cassano that playing two quick games like this was "not what we wanted to do," he had a different take late Tuesday:
"We were going to try to play a game to stay fresh. We wanted to get some at-bats and get some pitching. This would have happened regardless of the other issue. If you look back, we played between all our tournament games. We either had a scrimmage or a real game. But we were out of scrimmages. All we had left were two games we could add and so we did that.
"We weren't trying to circumvent the rules, but fortunately it also helped us get Nick back. And he deserves to play. I had never heard him cuss before this in the four years I had him. He's a good kid. A leader of our team. The kid worked so hard and the possibility of him missing out on the wonderful experience of going to state just really had left me shaken.
"Now it's worked out and I think Nick has learned a lot from this."
But once again the coach and the ump were of a different mind.
"What lesson does this send to all the kids there?" Klepacz said. "Is it that it's OK to bend the rules? Is it that you can get away with anything? What did they learn from this?"

Probably a good thing I'm not in charge in Ohio... Wonder where the Principal is during all this?

An unbelievable act to conteract what we attempt to teach during athletic contests. If I am the AD or principal, I am looking for a new baseball coach for the state tournament.

Wow. I don't even know where to begin.

The coach is a rat, plain and simple. Not only did he berate the umpire in the press, he boldface lied about his motivations to schedule two quick games. "We weren't trying to circumvent the rules..." Are you kidding me?

The umpire has no business airing his opinions and qualifications in the press either. And who cares that he played and umpired baseball and is a Hall of Fame member? What's that got to do with anything? He should have walked away from the reporter with a No Comment.

If this kid is allowed to play in the state tournament, it speaks highly of OHSAA's lack of stones. Two unsanctioned five-inning scrimmages? That's all it takes? And who scheduled umpires to do those games? What association would aid and abet this rat's tactic?

This article pisses me off at so many levels. Unfriggingbelievable.

This guy is something else.

The sad thing is that all three of the schools involved are Catholic schools. I say this out of respect for my Catholic brothers and sisters, not with an anti-Catholic bias. I simply expect better of them. They simply were not teaching these young men how to be morally-upstanding citizens in all this.

He did play (the State tournaments were last weekend). Badin lost in the semis.

They weren't scrimmages. They counted as full contests for both schools. I believe they only went 5 innings because of the mercy rule.

Our football crew ejected a player 9 years ago for a dead-ball spear where both players ended up injured.

The coach of the ejected player was more concerned with yelling at me and used some of these same lines.

"He works so hard in the weight room."

"He's a senior - how can you do that to him?"

The coach ended up drawing an USC flag and our crew hasn't worked that conference since. We've been offered dates there, but our schedule just doesn't have any openings right now.

If the ump really said this:

"I'm not some schlepp pushing a broom all day and then coming to a game not knowing what I'm doing. I do have credentials to be out there."

Then he truly is a schlepp - (to be kind.)

I think that's easy to say when we're on the outside looking in. In the heat of the moment he defended himself to the press. Most men would attempt to stand up for themselves. He was accused (in the press) of going on a power trip, which is incredibly demeaning. The coach, the player, the team, the school, the conference, and the OHSAA all owe this official an apology and should be ashamed of themselves.


Tim.

Horrible example - the state should be ashamed of themselves ... and we wonder why these kids act like they do ...:rolleyes:

Thanks
David

So in the interest of defending himself he can make an ignorant and degrading comment amout janitors or whatever hard working individual he was insulting????????????

First of all I agree with all the comments above. I'm really speechless in regards to the comments by the umpire and coach. I would hope that the umpire truly didn't say those things and the newspaper took liberties they shouldn't have (has happened to myself and others unfortunately in this area).

In your individual states, are teams allowed to play contests after the tournaments have started? It's my understanding (and I could be wrong) that in Iowa the last eligible playing date is before the tournament starts so this would not be an issue (unless they play two quick dates before the tourney starts assuming the last game of the season a player would get ejected).

-Josh

I don't believe for a second that his comments were degrading to any janitors. This new wave PC bull$it sickens me.


Tim.

I agree. While poorly worded, it seems his comments were more in line with clarifying that this isn't his first rodeo. It is, however, a good example of why we shouldn't comment to the media in the heat of accusations.

I believe that had he mentioned this wasn't his first rodeo there would have been a large outcry from rookie cowboys proclaiming how offensive his comments were.......


Tim.

And the veteran cowboys would have told the rookies to shut up and appreciate the extra publicity.

My issue with the umpire (very small compared to my issue with the coach / team / org) is that he spoke to the press at all. I could care less that he compared his job to one he thought was easy but probably had no context to make that comparison... he was not saying that to insult janitors. The fact that he was talking at all is my problem here.

Okay, here's reality.

• The umpire did his job
• The State allowed the school to bend the rules
• The coach gets his way

We can bitch all we want and pi$$ and moan until the cows come home. The end result is the politics of HS baseball wins. Personally, I couldn't care less. The player got ejected and as far as I am concerned, that is all we as umpires have control over. Who (umpires) really gives a crap if he plays the next game or not? We do our jobs, leave the field, write our reports and the rest is left to the gods above us. So what if the kid didn't serve the sentence that he should have? Does that affect the crew doing the game that the kid should be sitting? No! Keep your eye on the little bastard and dump him on the first sound. Heh, heh, heh!

When I was younger, I used to get all stressed about the 'politics' of what we do. As I have grown older (didn't say matured) I have learned to not let what happens outside of the lines get to me. My job is to work the game, not the back room.

Not our problem
 

Oz and Patrino hit the nail on the head.

Our job is between the lines (execute and report) and while I can understand the "hypocracy", we should not concern ourselves with the punishment handed out afterwards - that's really none of our business.

The ONLY time I concern myself with the "punishment" is if the EJ was for contact with an official... and that's because I want to ensure the league is backing me up

On the other hand, if the organization claims they want a crack down on unsporting behavior and then allows the work-around this coach managed to accomplish, they've basically told the umpires they really didn't mean it.

Swearing at the umpire is as unsporting as it gets in a high school game.

Time for me to jump in here.
 

Straight from the 2013 OhioHSAA Baseball Manual:

Maximum number of games permitted: 27 on a maximum of 27 playing dates (new for 2013!)
Scrimmages/Previews: Maximum of 4 scrimmages OR 3 scrimmages and 1 Preview
Scrimmage Note: Scrimmages MAY be held at any time during the season but MUST count as the same for both competing teams. In other words, Team A cannot count it as a ‘scrimmage’ while Team B counts the competition as a ‘game’.


Maximum number of games permitted: 17 and 1 Post-Season tournament not to exceed 4 games.
Scrimmages: Maximum of 2 scrimmages
Scrimmage Note: Scrimmages MAY be held at any time during the season but MUST count as the same for both competing teams. In other words, Team A cannot count it as a ‘scrimmage’ while Team B counts the competition as a ‘game’.


Teams may schedule games right up until the board adopted “Season Ends” date of June 15, 2012. This means that even though you are in tournament or eliminated from tournament, you may still schedule (usually ‘make up) a contest up until this date. Keep in mind that playing this late also eliminates any opportunity for a player to play non-interscholastic baseball until the school season is
complete. (see below)

MTD, Sr.

Sometime we forget that it is all about the kids. Sometime kids screw up, well, most of the time, as I'm sure we all did, and you learn from your mistakes!

We have to make sure the punishment fits the crime. I'm glad the kid got a chance to experience all he could have during his high school season. That's why I am in favor of restricting players versus ejecting them.

But get rid of the rats!

As one of those "schlepps pushing a broom", yeah he was being insulting.

I'm smart enough to get the work that allows me to umpire.

Rita

Rita, Rita, Rita. He didn't say people who push a broom are schlepps. He said he isn't some schlepp that happens to push a broom. He could have said he wasn't some schlepp working in a lab, but he said pushing a broom, which if we are all being honest here, doesn't take much brain power. Toughen up that skin a little.

Bill, Bill, Bill, Janitorial work is more than people think it is.

We should never demean anyone doing an honest day's work.

When's the last time you paid attention to the person doing the janitorial work, even to say thank you?

That would give you some idea of where you place them.

Rita

It's all about the kids, sure. And this kid should've served his suspension and leaned a life lesson. Instead he won't understand that what he did was wrong.

I'm just glad in my state that wouldn't have happened.

My state has suspended coaches for doing what this team and school did in other sports. In baseball not sure if that would work very well considering games are moved all the time. But this kid should have served a punishment and the state should be ashamed of themselves for not taking action.

And yes I would care if a kid got ejected did not serve the suspension properly. It would not have kept me up at night, but I would not have been happy. And if I had heard about that, that kid would be on a short leash the next game.

Peace

Thankfully, our state doesn't allow such bullcrap. In order for a player to be suspended, it must be his second EJ of the season. And, once playoffs begin, no more regular season games may be played.

However, I can understand where "cold-weather" states may need to have different scheduling policies.

I worked at an elementary school this past year and the year before. I know that our custodial staff works their butts off and I thanked them every day by name.

I'm pretty sure that in IL, suspensions have to be served in the next game that is already scheduled at the time of the suspension. So, a team could go ahead and add a game or two, but the player couldn't play in those and then couldn't play in the previously scheduled game.

If only restricting worked.

In the scheme of life, the ejection should teach more of a life lesson than a warm and fuzzy warning.

In some (if not most) cases a player ejection is actually only a seat on the bench. If the player is a minor, then he/she can't leave the premises unless a parent or guardian is there to take him/her home. The post game discipline is what reinforces the ejection.

There are coaches out there who take care of their own business. There are coaches who don't, so when we eject, it is typically from coaches who aren't taking care of their business in the first place. I never feel bad for an ejection. I often regret missing an ejection when I probably should've.

We're independent contractors and have no say in the administration of any school, team, conference or association. If you don't like it, don't work there. I certainly have my share of places I don't work because I don't like how they treat me, but I never once thought anybody owed me an apology. There are multiple coaches who bad-mouthed me publicly over the years, and when I was offered games to work where they coach, I just turned 'em down.

ozzy said it well:

No comment would have been the best answer.......if you're okay with "the heat of moment" comments, then he shouldn't have ejected the player.

Somebody has to be the voice of reason.

Pfft!!!!

What he should have said was, "This isn't my first time pushing a broom after the rodeo has left town."

Ladies and gentlemen. I can assure you that the OhioHSAA is not happy about the situation, BUT, as in the rules that I posted earlier in this thread, it was perfectly legal. I am sure that rules will be examined closely for next year.

MTD, Sr.

This is exactly the spot the OHSAA found themselves stuck in.

They wrote the regulation not expecting a member institution would find a way to work around the intent. (one of the teams had finished their season some 11 days prior) Instead of ending up in court, they voiced their displeasure with the school and will be rewriting the regulation to put a stop to this......

...until someone else comes along and finds a way around it.

FWIW, the coach and umpire were sanctioned for their comments to the media.

No surprise to me. That's what coaches do. Find loop holes or bend the rules. Or even cheat.

Rita....check your PMs.

We're going to have to agree to disagree here. This entite matter is a symptom of a much larger generational problem. There is virtually NO accountibility anymore for young men and women when they cross the line. This kid steps out of bounds and swears at an adult who's been placed in an authoritative position, and it appears the entire system makes allowances for it. In the days I played baseball none of the kids I played baseball with would have gotten away with something like this. Our coaches and school administrators would have supprted the official, and an a$$kicking woyld have been the order of the day by our fathers.

Tim.

The OHSAA system makes allowances for the frequent strings of foul weather we get here in Ohio. A few years ago, the weather was so wet teams were lucky to have played 15 games going into the tournament. The system was set up to allow teams to have a normal season even if early April weather doesn't cooperate.

That system was abused here and I would expect it will be adjusted to prevent this abuse in the future. Don't blame the system. Blame the coach, AD, principal and school system who lack the integrity to hold the player accountable.

Seems like there would be a fairly straightforward fix: if a player is suspended in an OHSAA tournament game, they must sit out the next tournament game.

But I think it's a little unfair to say the state "allowed" this to happen...the weasels found a loophole and accomplices to help them go through it, but the state couldn't just implement rules on the fly.

That is exactly the way the rule should read. You miss the next scheduled game that is on you schedule at the time of the ejection. If that game is rained out then it is the following game, so forth and so on till the suspension is served. If it is a tournament game, the suspension applies to that tournament and you miss the next game in that tournament. Any games that are not part of the tournament between the suspension and the next tournament game can be played in.

The problem with this is the weather in Ohio wreaks havoc with schedules.

Let's say a kid is dumped on Wednesday and the team is scheduled for Thursday and Friday but off for the weekend. However, rain causes postponements for Thursday and Friday. The original schedule called for the weekend off, now they schedule not one but two games over the weekend. By using the term "scheduled games" a player could be forced to serve a suspension greater than the rule calls for. (the reschedules may not be with the original teams)

This specific situation is easily fixed by inserting the regulation "if you are ejected in a tournament game, you are suspended for the next two tournament games."

Nobody is disagreeing with you. They're telling you why they're right.

I thought that when people take up two different sides of a discussion the term best used to describe their differences is "disagreement". If you think otherwise, we'll just have to disagree.................

Tim.

Isn't that the definition of disagreeing? When they take a different stance and try to sell you on their belief?

Colorado is very clear on this. A student who is ejected is ineligible to play a game at any level until he/she misses the next scheduled game at the level where the ejection took place. IOW, if a player is ejected from a JV game, he cannot play any level until he misses the next scheduled JV game.

The rules specify, "A school may not schedule a contest after an ejection in order to circumvent the penalty."

IOW, the OP couldn't happen here. Frankly, I'm surprised all states don't have the same rule.

I don't even know what this means.

So will they say...we just want to play, we're not circumventing the penalty.

No. If the game isn't already scheduled, then adding a game doesn't change the suspension.

But, in the OP, a team could "schedule" extra games between the playoff games. If someone is kicked out, play the games without the player. If no one is kicked out, then cancel the games. ;)

Fine, then junior gets to sit those games, plus the game that was scheduled at the time of his suspension.

Assuming scheduled games between playoff games are allowed, then yes, this would be possible. This also assumes that all the players on the team aren't looking at their playing time limits.

Both of those would be considerations in the OP as well.

True, and the coach could always play JV players in the cheater games.

I don't think you "sell" your beliefs............that's what those snake oil salesmen used to do (?), or a revival tent preacher. I don't like the term, "agree to disagree".

That would be true, but you always seem to get on the side of the fence that suits your agenda at the moment...........seen it too many times in the past...........instead of a discussion, you have axes you want to grind.

I don't think the coach actually broke the rule, he just took it to his advantage per the language in the rule.

The rule could be reworded to say, "except for teams in the playoffs"

In states like Ohio, it doesn't sound like a bad idea for teams who played fewer games [not in the playoffs] to get a chance for some make-up games when the weather improves while the playoffs are in progress.

Even gives the umps a chance to make up some of the extra fees they lost due to weather.

Coach was wrong in my opinion for disrespecting the official big time though.

I think we all agree on that. We also think that what he did was "wrong" (even if it was "legal") -- this was not the time to be looking for a loophole in the rule.

+1

This is a coach failing to take advantage of an opportunity to teach his players a valuable life lesson. Instead, he's essentially making excuses for them.

I have no idea what this means.

Seems to me that I've heard this before in this thread.....

Tim.

Don't know what you're reading, but that answer was pretty poignant, and straight forward as they come.

Do the Ohio rules allow scheduling of games during the state tourney? If the answer is yes than the coach was following the letter of the rules.

I know a team that tried this in Michigan several years ago. They had a player ejected on a Tuesday during a pre-district game.
The MHSAA's suspension is one game date, so the team rescheduled a double header for Thursday (to replace a single game rainout), which the offending player was forced to sit out.

What the school did not realize was that they royally screwed up in doing so. The MHSAA uses a point system, 1 point per date of competition, and 1 point for each game played. The single game rainout would have been 2 points. The rescheduled DH was 3 points (2 games, plus the date). After the team lost its district semi-final game, it was pointed out to the AD that had they won the game, the opposing team would have notified the state immediately of a points violation, and thus the offending team would be removed from the playoffs. In Michigan teams are allowed 56 total points. The single game scheduled would have been 56, but when they scheduled the DH in stead of a single game, that put them at 57 points, and in violation.

We also had a team miss a tourney final a few years ago because of a similar points issue. They had not expected to make the championship game of a big tourney. The coach, before the final realized that if they played they would be 1 point over the limit, and thus forced to miss the post-season. Since they could not remove any later games from the schedule (all in conference games), they had to withdraw from the tourney final and hand the championship to the opponent unopposed.

Yes. The relevant regulation is quoted further up this thread.

And you don't?

Your continued need to badger people over past things is getting old.

Steve Meyer and Steven Tyler. Sad that you have to use two user accounts to tag team another member.

Enjoy your vacation...together.

--Rich