Hello all, been too busy to post much here recently, but I had a question.

SITUATION: Working the bases in C, R3 and R1, catcher attempts a pickoff at third right after a pitch. Throw is a little high and wide, and the runner slides feet first as the fielder swipes the tag.

I pause, read, react. I have no clue. The throw beat him, but did the tag get on him? I needed to see through the runner's body, which I can't do yet.

I call him out. Dugout behind the play goes nuts.

Speaking to my partner after a inning or two, he said that he had a tag as well.

I should have pointed to him and asked, "Tom, do you have a tag?" I didn't do it right in the 1.0-1.5 seconds I had to decide what to do. I needed about 5 seconds on that one.

Now I know. So my question:

"Do you have a tag?" and "Did he hold the bag?" are two times we can/should ask for help before the call. What are the other situations where we will need to ask before the call?

P-Sz

It's deja vu all over again.

Patrick, are you bucking for the record thread?

I think I'll sit this one out.

Hehe Garth...common you can't quit that easy ;)

Really you are going to have to figure out for yourself on that one.. If you are not sure if a player got a tag on a runner, check swing (obviously), pulled foot are times you could. On a catch/no catch if you cannot tell. Some blues will tell you never seek help. Others will tell you only in certain situations like above. Sometimes if you seek help, your P will just agree with you reguardless. Sometimes you can "check" even though you know your partner will not have anything different due to angle, just to appease a coach. For example your play back into 3rd. Your P more then likely saw the tag but he more than likely could not tell if the runner got back to the bag first or not. Oh and rule of thumb on pickoffs, unless you are 100% sure it is an out, it is safe. In your case I would have called it safe since you were not sure of the tag. If the defense appeals ask your P but ask him if he got an out, not a tag in that case because of what I stated above.

Very good response Cowboy.....my approach exactly. And I also agree with Garth.....good grief, here we go again.

Heh, let me also say that I wholeheartedly encourage us to all get into a good position so that we don't have to get help!

Hopefully there won't be too much discord...

P-Sz

<i> Originally posted by Patrick Szalapski </i>


<b> SITUATION: Working the bases in C, R3 and R1, catcher attempts a pickoff at third right after a pitch. Throw is a little high and wide, and the runner slides feet first as the fielder swipes the tag.

I pause, read, react. I have no clue. The throw beat him, but did the tag get on him? I needed to see through the runner's body, which I can't do yet.

I call him out. Dugout behind the play goes nuts.

Speaking to my partner after a inning or two, he said that he had a tag as well.

I should have pointed to him and asked, "Tom, do you have a tag?" </b>

Patrick the call is YOURS Period. You are in C and the first play at third is YOURS. In "C" you are probably no more than 15-20 ft. from the play. The PU is still at home plate some 90 ft. away.

If you start pointing to home on this type of play get ready for a LOOONG Game.

My only advice on changing calls is to try it and see what happens. I "committed the Cardinal Sin myself" this past weekend in a collegiate wood bat game and I know better.

There was a line drive to right field and my partner in "A" didn't go out so the call was mine. I as you had no ACTUAL clue if the ball was caught or not so I said vehemently, "NO CATCH Ball on the GROUND" to try and SELL it.

Well as soon as I said that I heard moans from the defense, so I unfortunately checked with my partner who indeed had a catch and I changed the call. In retrospect I should have stayed with the original call and had a talk with my partner AFTER the game as to why he didn't go out on a shoe string catch to begin with but that's another story.


Now you know what happens next, the coach whom the call went against was livid especially since I said I saw the ball on the ground and eventually I had to "dump him" and all because I changed a call that I shouldn't have.

I can go on and on but at least from my experience even if you get the call RIGHT you are WRONG if you catch my drift.
One side will be happy and the other upset - That's baseball.

The MOST important thing is to have a good pre-game with your partner and get into position.

Pete Booth

I have to agree with Peter on this one. There is absolutly no reason that you can't make that call. Especially from the "C" position.

With the runner on third, (R3) why are you looking through his body? Isn't he returning to the bag. Therefore, you have the perfect view of the tag. Tag is placed high , he is safe. Otherwise it seems like a routine out.

Asking for help on a play like this, only makes you, look bad. Even if you do get it wrong. Unlike another scenario, recently discussed and discussed and discussed and discussed, this is your call , All The Way.

Ok, Warren, now its your turn.

Go for it!

Who cares if there's an actual tag?

If the ball beat the runner and the glove is down, everyone in the park expects the runner to be called out. Why disappoint?

Rich

2 steps forward.....
 

I do agree with Frony, but all it takes is 2 measly steps and angle improves, obviously you have no hit ball, so you be safe. Next question, why "C" with runners on the corners? I'll be in "B" cuz of the possible more important BR safe/out at first with 2 outs, or the "I'm more comfy in"B" with a steal at second" possible with only 1 out...let the groans go, stick to your calls, be confident.......

Ok, thanks. Here goes:

I agree with<ol><li>Pete Booth<li>jicecone<li>Rich Fronheiser, and<li>Chris Swarz</ol>It was <i>your</i> call to make, Patrick. GET YOUR OWN CALLS!

As Garth would say, "It's <i>deja vu</i> all over again!" Seems like I remember saying "GET YOUR OWN CALLS" once or twice before, maybe in another thread ... hmmmm, that Alzheimers sure does sneak up on a person. :D

Cheers

I guess you had to be there, but this situation was such that I had no way to see the play. The tag was on the far side of the runner--it did not come down the top of him. Furthermore, the fielder was playing in a little, so the tag was in plenty of time even though it was on his trunk--IF the tag was on him. I feel better that my partner also had a tag (I asked him later), but I also feel like there's no way I could've seen whether the tag was good or not.

My first reaction was that I couldn't/shouldn't ask for help on this one, so I made the call, assuming that the tag was on. It was the third out. Of course, the third base coach came over right away and talked to me, saying "there's no way you could have seen that", etc. I had to just play along--he left after thirty seconds or so.

P-Sz

[Edited by Patrick Szalapski on Jul 31st, 2003 at 01:22 PM]

Good for you, Patrick. As for the coach's questioning your ability to see the call:<ul>Coach: "There's no way you could have seen that"

Umpire: "I've made my call. He didn't beat the play."

Coach: "But you couldn't have seen a tag from where you were"

Umpire: "I've made my call. If I had your view I might have called it differently, but in my judgement the runner was out. Let's play ball."

Coach: "But..."

Umpire: "Don't be arguing my judgement on that call, coach. Stay in the game."</ul>At least that's the way it <i>might</i> have gone if the coach was sensible at the time. ;)

Cheers

You see guys, Warren always has an advantage on us because he has another view that we don't.

Ready for this?

Here we go.

He sees the plays from "Down Under"

I know its weak, but I couldn't help myself.

That's pretty ordinary alright! We've been known to lock people up and throw away the key for making better jokes than that! :D

I'm still waiting for the inevitable speight of "going down ... under" jokes to surface, too. ;)

The only advantage I have is that I get to surf the boards while most of you guys are asleep, so I have no fear that someone else will beat me to the punch on any given post.

You can't begrudge the Aussie THAT much. After all, I wasn't born in the home of the game that I love, so I've got to take what I can get.

Cheers