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Old Mon May 27, 2013, 06:56pm
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Time of pitch or time of throw?

Can someone help me with a play?

Runners on first and second, nobody out. Ground ball to 3B. The thirdbaseman tags third for the first out and thorws the ball out of play when trying to get the batter at first base. R1 is past second base when the throw is made.

Is the award time of pitch or time of throw? If tagging third is considered a play, then I think that it should be time of throw.
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Old Mon May 27, 2013, 07:27pm
DG DG is offline
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A tag or tag try of a base is a play.
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Old Tue May 28, 2013, 12:28am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by starman View Post
Can someone help me with a play?

Runners on first and second, nobody out. Ground ball to 3B. The thirdbaseman tags third for the first out and thorws the ball out of play when trying to get the batter at first base. R1 is past second base when the throw is made.

Is the award time of pitch or time of throw? If tagging third is considered a play, then I think that it should be time of throw.
DG is correct, which means in your play above, it is a time of throw award. R1 to home and the BR to second (unless, for some rare reason he reached first before the throw was released--admittedly this is exceedingly rare).
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Old Wed Jun 05, 2013, 03:20pm
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Originally Posted by UMP25 View Post
DG is correct, which means in your play above, it is a time of throw award. R1 to home and the BR to second (unless, for some rare reason he reached first before the throw was released--admittedly this is exceedingly rare).
If R1 is on 1st base at the time of the pitch, the"First Play" has not ended (assuming in the example) all runners were not to the next base when the throw was made to first. Awards would be all runner's position from time of pitch. R1's two base award from time of pitch would put R1 on 3rd base, batter to 2nd.

If the throw to first was to put out the batter/runner making a turn to second after touching first, then the award would be from the time of throw.
R1 to Home, batter to 3rd.
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Old Wed Jun 05, 2013, 03:23pm
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Originally Posted by Ia-Ref View Post
If R1 is on 1st base at the time of the pitch, the"First Play" has not ended (assuming in the example) all runners were not to the next base when the throw was made to first.
Huh?

My explanation above was accurate and correct. I don't know why you have to make things so confusing with this "first play has not ended" comment. That's unnecessary and incorrect.
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Old Wed Jun 05, 2013, 03:26pm
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Originally Posted by Ia-Ref View Post
If R1 is on 1st base at the time of the pitch, the"First Play" has not ended (assuming in the example) all runners were not to the next base when the throw was made to first. Awards would be all runner's position from time of pitch. R1's two base award from time of pitch would put R1 on 3rd base, batter to 2nd.

If the throw to first was to put out the batter/runner making a turn to second after touching first, then the award would be from the time of throw.
R1 to Home, batter to 3rd.
I don't know where you got any of this, but it's blatantly incorrect. I suggest you go ask whoever told you this to check again.
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Old Wed Jun 05, 2013, 03:29pm
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I'm still trying to decipher exactly what he said.
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Old Wed Jun 05, 2013, 03:31pm
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Originally Posted by UMP25 View Post
I'm still trying to decipher exactly what he said.
I think he's under the impression that the first play is somehow anything that happens before the batter and everyone else advances a base. Nonsensical, but I think that was what he was advocating.
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Old Wed Jun 05, 2013, 03:41pm
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Originally Posted by UMP25 View Post
Huh?

My explanation above was accurate and correct. I don't know why you have to make things so confusing with this "first play has not ended" comment. That's unnecessary and incorrect.
But at least it's not timely.
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Old Wed Jun 05, 2013, 03:44pm
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This is true.
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Old Wed Jun 05, 2013, 04:20pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ia-Ref View Post
If the throw to first was to put out the batter/runner making a turn to second after touching first, then the award would be from the time of throw.
R1 to Home, batter to 3rd.
I'm trying really hard to understand why you feel that the BR making a turn toward second could possibly have anything to do with an award being from TOP or TOT.

Tim.
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Old Wed Jun 05, 2013, 04:33pm
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Perhaps he was trying to mean that when a batter-runner reaches or passes first base BEFORE a wild throw is made, then the award is TOT, even if the throw is the first play by an infielder. Of course, this would be true only IF the B-R (and all other runners, if there were any) reached his advance base before the throw was released. This, however, as I stated above, is exceedingly rare.
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Old Fri Jun 07, 2013, 11:43am
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Originally Posted by MD Longhorn View Post
I don't know where you got any of this, but it's blatantly incorrect. I suggest you go ask whoever told you this to check again.
This is blatantly incorrect.
How?

Please enlighten us (or maybe just me) with your knowledge.
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Old Fri Jun 07, 2013, 12:10pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ia-Ref View Post
If R1 is on 1st base at the time of the pitch, the"First Play" has not ended (assuming in the example) all runners were not to the next base when the throw was made to first. Awards would be all runner's position from time of pitch. R1's two base award from time of pitch would put R1 on 3rd base, batter to 2nd.

If the throw to first was to put out the batter/runner making a turn to second after touching first, then the award would be from the time of throw.
R1 to Home, batter to 3rd.
You wanted enlightenment as to why this is wrong. And boy is it.

The first play in the example was the tag of third base. First play is ended. Anything after that is a second play.

That means the placement of the runners will be from the time of the throw. At that point in the OP, R1 was past second and (we assume) the BR was not yet at first.

R1 is awarded home, BR is awarded second.

It's as simple as that. Now when you read what you wrote, you should see why we see it as nonsense.

Rita
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Old Fri Jun 07, 2013, 12:14pm
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Originally Posted by Ia-Ref View Post
This is blatantly incorrect.
How?

Please enlighten us (or maybe just me) with your knowledge.
Your assertion that the play wasn't over is blatantly incorrect. The tag of third was the first play and satisfied the "first play" condition. ALL subsequent action is after the first play so any throw out of play is two bases TOT.
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