Assigning playoff umpires in Texas
 

As an association President (not in Texas), I just don't get this story.

South Texas school wants re-play of controversial game after revelations of broken protocol in umpire selection | Dallasnews.com - News for Dallas, Texas - SportsDayDFW

Come on Texas posters; what is the rest of the story?

I'm not from Texas, but here's what I thinking happened:

One team lost.
They didn't like it.
Now they want to get a do-over.

Well my understanding and what I have been told, the coaches send a list to the chapter board of umpires they want. Numbered 1-15 or more. Then the board will try to place the umpires from their list to their playoff game.

Disclaimer:
I am not on the board nor have I sat in on these selection meetings. So I am just relaying third party information.

Allan

I tried, without success, to find a video of the walk-off balk.

I don't do baseball, but it is standard practice for all UIL (Texas state assn.) sports that when the game starts, that constitutes acceptance of the officials. So there is nothing left to do here. The losing team can blame no one but themselves, since if they were concerned enough about who was going to umpire, they should have gotten in touch with UIL 24-48 hours prior to the game.

It is very likely the coach of the team that picked the officials lied to the SA assignor (or assignment committee member, whoever he talked with). I'm familiar with UIL assignments in both football and basketball and I don't think either coach is involved until they get the list of officials assigned. They still have the ability to not approve the officials, but in practice they generally don't do that. In this case, it appears they agreed to have the UIL call the SA chapter to assign (something that doesn't happen much). I'm not sure what the point of getting UIL involved if they had both agreed to use SA.

When I called ball in Tx that's the way they did it but that was long time ago. It was up to our local association to assign the officials, but they did try to go with guys who were on both coaches list if possible.

thanks
David

I think that Texas model is silly. Why would the coaches have that much say over a situation where people lose their season is over?

Peace

Game Video
 

Here is the video of the game in question. The game ending balk is at about 54:30.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UtizcqqSOWo

<iframe width="853" height="480" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/UtizcqqSOWo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Wow. I think U3 must have called it. You can see U2 point to F1 after the ball was hit, but it's such a late call my guess is he was mirroring U3.

I don't think the Texas method has been adaquately explained. But how do you do it?

Looked like the pitcher did not not come to a complete and discernible stop.

"After the Rattlers lost all the flips with the Eagles (for the length of the series and its location)..."

Now that's downright strange. One of the teams decides how many games will be played?

I am in East Texas and speak only for how my chapter assigns crews for playoffs.

If a team thinks they may be eligible for playoffs, the HC sends a list of requested umpires to the chapter president listing umpires they want to call their playoff games/series. If an umpire is playoff qualified and available, the chapter tries to assign an umpire that was requested. If the requested umpire is not available, our assigner calls the coach, and gives him a list of the available umpires to choose from. In all cases, the chapter board approves all playoff assignments. My chapter has a good reputation and we send several crews each year for neutral games/series.

</O:p
Each school's coach will call each other before the playoff series begins to discuss the number of games in a series, site(s), and home/visitor. If they can't agree, the coaches use a system to flip for the choice of series length, site, and home/visitor. Most of the time, each school will bring a two-man crew unless a choice/flip was made for a crew from a neutral chapter. There are times when the coaches will not want to use the chapter that normally calls their games and will agree for a neutral crew from a particular chapter.

If the coaches can’t agree on the umpires/chapter, a request is made to the UIL. Then the UIL calls for a crew to be sent to a series, the coaches involved in the series don't get a choice as to what umpires are sent. The chapter board assigns the umpires for the series.
</O:p
I already know that I have the plate for a Regional Semi-Final tomorrow night using a split crew. The flips have already been done and the other school’s crew will have the plate for the second game and third if necessary.
<O:p</O:p
I’m a long way from San Antonio but it sounds like the coaches agreed to use a neutral chapter and the school that was to call UIL went directly to the San Antonio chapter. JMO on this.

Talk about the tail wagging the dog. My goodness.

It is as screwed up as it sounded in the newspaper story.

"I want a 9-game series, like the MLB World Series in the 1910's!!!"

The options are 3-game or 1. Generally, the preference is for 3, but some poorer or smaller town schools can't afford to take a team and stay somewhere for 2 nights, so they just want to play 1. Occasionally, you'll have a school with 1 superstar pitcher and nothing else - and they want to play 1... and occasionally they'll be up against a school that feels the same way.

Under Texas UIL playoff guidelines, a winner has to be decided by midnight of the Saturday following the previous round. I think that they can't play more than two games in one day.

Last year, I was on a neutral crew that was going to do a Friday night game, with the second and "if" game on Saturday. Friday night was rained out, so it became a one-game Saturday series. If the Saturday game had been rained out, a team would have advanced based on a coin flip.

Texas spring weather plays havoc with three game series because of thunderstroms, lightening, etc. Last Saturday it was in the 80s, two Saturdays ago, the temperature was in the upper 40s with a 15 mph north wind.

Check out Hughes Springs. They have a stud pitcher. They opt for a one gamer as much a possible.

I truly believe in the saying, "just because its different doesn't mean its wrong."

But...deciding a playoff "series" on a coin flip is wrong.

I mean, the weather played havoc with our state's Class AAA state playoffs, but our state league just kept rescheduling the games until they could be played...and they eventually were.

I don't have a no-stop balk. Can't really tell if anything else is going on.

We played 5 innings in one Texas town and drove 25 miles to finish the game in another town that did not get hit by the thunderstorm.

I understand school finances, but if they get weathered out in a 1-game playoff, they have to stay anyway.

The "one stud pitcher" rationale is why our state has morphed it's way to
3-game series for all rounds. There were too many teams with better all-around pitching getting beat by the stud in the early rounds. Then when the stud's team got to the 3-game semis, they were getting drilled in games 2 & 3.

Any relation to Earl?As opposed to darkening?

:) (Sorry, couldn't resist 2 right there in a row)

Dash I have him doing a "stop and go".

Not a good video but I don't have a balk. PU is in a real good spot to see a no stop balk, and he did not call one that I can tell.

So they are still doing it the way we did back in 80's. It doesn't sound always good, but I have to admit "it worked very well". At the time I was a "up and coming" umpire, but we always had some great crews who worked our series when I was there. Our association had a "short list" of about 10-12 umpires who were chosen to work playoffs each year based on evaluations etc., and we regularly did neutral playoff games for other associations.

In my current state, there is no system "good ole boy network" and we regularly see umpires who call playoff games that are not qualified for that level of games. :eek:

And the best part of playoffs in TX was that you make part of the gate - it was not unusual to call a game and make upwards of $350 for one game plus mileage. And that was 20 years ago. :D

Thanks
David

No relation to Earl. Went to Junior High with him. He, his brothers, and his mother are GREAT people. He also makes some pretty good hot links. If you watched the Heisman ceremony, he couldn't go up on stage. He can barely walk.

On the weather issue, I don't know who the teams were but last week they started a playoff game in Waco, and in the bottom of the first inning the weather caused the game to be suspended without a chance to be finished on Friday night. They drove to Arlington to finish the game. Otherwise the series would have been a one-game series completed on Saturday. I hope the crews turned in a new pay sheet for mileage.

Come on dude, in East Texas we do good to speak it , much less spell it. LOL

If you mean how does my state assign the playoffs, it is done by the IHSA Sports Administrator. Every single assignments. We do have a rating system, but it has a small input from coaches and it only used with other information to decide who is going to work games. Coaches have no say in where someone goes or when they work their games in the post season.

Peace

You went to junior high with Earl Strom? WOw.

Earl Campbell, sorry. You might remember him, he played in Houston. LOL

Anything from the third round up until the state finals is a crap shoot at best. Filled in emergency for an umpire whose wife went into labor early. We went from Grand Prairie, stopped at Tyler, and finished in Kilgore. Long day, and everybody from the teams, fans, and umpires were just flat out exhausted and frustrated.

I attended one AAA playoff game, probably third round, a few years back. The four man crew came out wearing red shirts, and blew rotations. I doubt they will be invited back soon.

From what I've seen from our chapter in the playoffs, it's the same bunch working together. It got to the point that I was tired of giving my money to people that only took care of themselves. I would work the first six weeks, and call it a season.

One year they assigned some that didn't even bother to show for any meetings, and didn't take the state test.

Some coaches send in names of people dead, or no longer umpiring. Who knows who does what anymore. All the associations officers do the state semis and finals for the most part.

I don't know what that is.

Look at 52:37 of the clip and tell me if you would have balked him there.....


Tim.

What might Earl Campbell have to do with "thunderstroms"

Are you asking because you don't know?

Sure looks like he broke his hands before stepping off.

How about the FPSR at 26:50. Anything there?

Player gets ejected. And no, he wasn't the one sliding.

We talked about this elsewhere. Sure looked like a FPSR to me - R1 had to reach for the base with his hand and slid in the direction of the fielder and altered the throw. With a 4-man crew, this is easy for U2 to get -- he has no other job.

I hadn't watched the aftermath before now. What a circus. I'm not sure which player got ejected, but I know #5 (spiking the ball) should've been and the head coach should've been run when he walked over to second and pointed at the slide mark -- missed call notwithstanding.

I'm not sure why these guys were chosen, but I just don't feel (watching a few minutes of this game) they were the strongest umpires that could've worked these games. If they are, it doesn't say much about the state of umpiring in this area.

He balked. But they were saving their balk until it could end the game. :rolleyes:

Agreed, I looked but still don't understand what they called and why they placed the runner back on 1B? If it's FPSR then its a DP. If not then the play stands -

These guys were very poor for sure.

Thanks
David

That's funny.

Our local HS had game last week and the 1B umpire waited until the 7th inning to balk in the winning run - his call was the F3 didn't have both feet in fair territory - and this was for the North State Championship - hey it gave our team the win - but very poor umpiring for the entire game.

I told my son who plays on our team - you don't call that in 7th inning when he's been doing it the entire game etc., but we'll take the @W

Thanks
David

I don't know about you guys, but I have never seen a playoff game with such poor game management in my life. Batters were wandering all over the place, coaches wandered all over the place, the pace was slow as molasses, I just don't get it.

On the FPSR, that was obvious on the video. What I don't understand is how the DC can come onto the field during a LIVE ball and not be ejected. It looked like there were TWO coaches on the field arguing/discussing the call. Very poor indeed. Watching games like this makes my skin crawl.

Good Grief.

You not only don't call it in the 7th inning, you don't call it at all. Make F3 get right, or get a new F3.

If your state uses FED F3 only has to have one foot touching fair territory at TOP.

Correct and he told the coaches that - we went to game two in the series and U3 balked us in another run and even our coach told me he don't know what the guy did - U3 said he flinched. Then PU called out one of their runners on appeal at 3B on a long fly ball to left field - where i was sitting I had a perfect view and was watching the play and no way he left early - these were young umpires though and as others have mentioned, sometimes the pressure gets to them.

We did lose that game, but getting two runs from "blue" was kind of nice.

Thanks
David

Since I'm not much of a seer, of course I don't know who else here would have balked him, Wayne. I'm hoping most of the members here would have. Do you have an opinion worth sharing? About the call or non-call of the balk...............

Tim.

Missed the FPSR and called a non-existent balk.

Impressive.

I wouldn't have balked it............stop looked complete, and discernible to me..............not sure of the who the "you" was you were referring to. Maybe small ball guys would have called it........but not a competent high school playoff umpire.

I disagree. I think all competent umpires would have called a balk as soon as he set with his hands in front of his body and then broke them apart. If you'll read my question it was about a situation prior to the balk that ended up being called. Please keep up.............

Tim.

Don't we all have different levels of judgment? That is the case in other sports, so why are we surprised in baseball? Some guys are going to call balks more than others. I do not think that is necessarily a bad thing. I would have rather talked a player out of a "technical balk" but would eventually call something that was obvious to me.

Peace

I agree, Jeff. Then again, there are balks and then there are elephant balks that aren't discretionary. I would put the one I'm talking about in the latter category, which is why I'm surprised they missed it.

Tim.

Oh..........I suppose you're talking about when the batter hadn't entered the box yet. Yep, that's a balk all competent umpires call. Maybe this website is too advanced for you.

I thought I was specific enough about the time frame in which the balk occurred. The batter is in the box, the ball is in play, F1 is on the rubber with his hands together in front of his body, and then he breaks them before stepping off. Maybe you should take a look at it again (52:37), and give an opinion on the play I'm talking about. The small ball comment, and remark about this site being too advanced for me are really not germane to the issue.

Tim.

I saw it the first time around.......looked like play had been stopped for a second or two judging from the catcher and HPU. Eagle Pass lost in the region finals if anyone cares.

That can happen in baseball or softball...........anyhow the state semis and finals are just a one and done. I remember when I played football only one team made the playoffs from a district. A lot of 9-1 teams stayed home.

I know and they are talking about taking the top four now.

They have been taking 4 for a while in both the 5A and 4A classifications.

Isn't the UIL planning on expanding the top four to 3A and 2A next year. I may be wrong on this one. When does the new 6A classification start?

Playoffs expand next season.

The new 6A isn't really what that sounds like - slicing the biggest schools off into a group. It's actually the opposite. They are splitting A into two groups, calling the bigger of the two groups AA. All the rest simply get another A - if you were 5A before, you're 6A after.

Last I heard, that was for the 2014-2016 alignment, but I find no confirmation on that.

Gotcha, One more playoff series and championship to generate more money. Gotta love UIL.

I'm not sure UIL actually makes more money from this. It's possible, but in honestly, this necessity is coming from the sheer increase in the number of schools in the state. If they didn't do something to add a class, it wouldn't be long before they had to add a round of playoffs in one or more of the classes, or they would have to have more teams per district than current bylaws allow, in order to accommodate the number of schools in the state.

Plano East is the largest school in Texas followed by Plano West, Plano, and Allen. They are all in the same district.