Obstruction
 

The National Federation has taken out the extended left arm/closed fist signal from the umpire mechanics. Here in Iowa we recently received our first memo from our high school state association saying we would be ignoring that and still use the signal to indicate we have a delayed dead ball and that we've seen obstruction. My general feeling is OK with that as the good coaches are familiar with that signal, look for it in obstruction situations, and
would probably freak out if we adopted the NF edict and signal nothing. My question for the forum is why did the NF want that signal removed? I'm having a hard time thinking of a scenario where using that signal to communicate obstruction to the players, coaches, and my partner would be a bad mechanic that somehow gets us in some other jackpot.

The proper 'communication' of the obstruction violation is the umpire pointing at the offense and calling: "That's obstruction!" when it happens. The ball is live (delayed dead, if you must) unless and until the umpire calls "Time."

I suspect that FED got rid of the left-turn signal after years of reading mail from umpires telling them that it was a ridiculous and wholly unnecessary mechanic.

I'm with you dash ripock 100%...that's the way I've always done it too.
Verbally said that's obstruction...but I have left turned signaled it and as I was mentored 35 years ago...held that out the whole play until the ball was dead and then I awarded bases accordingly. Have always done the same mechanic sequence on Batter interference with the catcher. I'd say I differ somewhat on it being "wholly unecessary"...I have the simple R1 running into a brain dead 2B on a gapper to the fence I perhaps mistakenly believe it is important that I hold out my left arm...nobody will have heard me say "that's obstruction" way
out there in the B position...it let's the coaches know, players, my partner that "Hey, I got some contact here and we'll see what happens with this runner after we get to a dead ball" That arm out stops me from being hollered at by the offense AND it stops the defense from freaking after the play that I only gave R1 a base because the offense went nuts cuz I DIDN'T signal visually I got obstruction. I'm just not seeing the "wholly unecessary" position...there had to be something else behind the BF's thinking on this change. No big deal either way...I just find it curious and good baseball umpire talk.

I never have used the 'dead ball signal', and I certainly never would have kept my left arm out for an entire play.

My mechanic is to display the signal for a second or two and then drop it. Enough time for people to look at you and see the signal.
The 'half a propellor'* imitation is not necessary.


*My first obstruction, guess what I looked like? As told to me by a veteran.

The next time I use that signal...oh, wait, I never will.

Minnesota stuck w/ the "stick the arm out" mechanic.

Too much change for a year I guess.

I will never use that mechanic. Don't care how it affects my post season FED status either.

What "dead ball signal" are you referring to?

If that grinds your gears, you are an Internet umpire. I'd rather see that than some crazy strike/punch out combo. Why umps are bothered with that is beyond me.

Not sure what the objection is/was to using the DDB signal, its simple, informative, and IMO useful when communicating with your partner.

I've heard that player/coaches have mistaken the left arm/fist (delayed dead ball mechanic) with a right arm/fist (out mechanic). Coach thinks the umpire is calling a runner out instead of umpire protecting that runner.

Agreed. Running around for 10 seconds with your arm out is absurd. Hate it when partners do that.

The entire "delayed dead ball" thing with FED is stupid in the first place. The ball is either alive or dead. Any number of things (Including OBS) can happen while the ball is alive, you just kill it when the play ends.

I think I used the "fist" mechanic one time my first season and felt like a buffoon, so I swore it off then.

So is pointing at the obstruction and saying loud enough for your partner to hear, "That's obstruction."

And you don't look stupid doing it.

The DDB signal has the entire left arm parallel to the ground. I can't even begin to imagine how that is supposed to confuse players and coaches with the standard out mechanic.

The DDB signal is still used in softball. I had a situation earlier this season where, as PU, I saw R2 get obstructed by F5 on a two-out fly ball down the leftfield line. I put out my left hand (while holding my mask) to make the DDB Obstruction call. R2 saw it, and thought I was signalling foul, so she held up and started to go back to second base. The ball was fair, her base coach yelled for her to go home, and she got confused. She ended up going back to third base safely. I didn't award her home, which she might've attained if she would have continued.

Speaking softball ... you absolutely should have awarded her home. You just said why even - you thought she would have attained it had there been no obstruction. There is no requirement in ANY ruleset of either side ball that the runner must attempt to achieve the award base.

I guess I wasn't clear. It wasn't the obstruction that prevented her from attaining home. It was the fact that she stopped running because she mistook my signal for a foul ball. If she had continued and not stopped because of my signal, I certainly would have awarded her home if she would have reached it minus the obstruction.

Pardon my error, the delayed dead ball signal. :rolleyes:

Just my imagination...running away with me
 

If you can't begin to imagine how a not perfect DDB mechanic might be confused with a not perfect out mechanic, then maybe you lack imagination. Here, I'll help you:
1) Pick any of the interference/obstruction threads from this site where a slight variation in the sitch reverses the call, then picture the umpire pointing (I've got something). One team thinks its interference (out) the other team thinks its obstruction and then the umpire raising his left arm/fist...possible confusion.
2) Pick any of the interference/obstruction threads from this site where a slight variation in the sitch reverses the call, then picture the umpire pointing (I've got something). One team thinks its interference (out) the other team thinks its obstruction and then the umpire gets excited and raises the wrong arm raising his right arm/fist...possible confusion...imagine that.

And then you give another example of how a DDB mechanic was confused with a foul mechanic. Even with your description, I can't begin to imagine how that happened. :D

I'm glad to see the Fed DDB mechanic gone.

The stopping, the mistaking, etc all happened after the obstruction, right?

If you thought she would have achieved home had she run after seeing your signal, then I'm assuming you would have thought she would have achieved home had she run BEFORE seeing it.

Our duty as umpire is to decide, AT THE MOMENT OF OBS, where the runner would have gotten to. All of the stuff that happened after the OBS is irrelevant (not so in all baseball codes ... but you're not talking baseball). At the moment of OBS, would she have achieved home had the OBS not happened. From your description that she could have even if she'd headed home AFTER going the wrong way for a second, I'd say that's a resounding yes.

Had there been no obstruction there would have been no signal.

If there was no signal she would not have been confused and stopped.

The stop was therefore because of the obstruction.

Run until you hear the word:FOUL!!!!

Oh, well, if you're going to change things up significantly by stating the mechanics are "not perfect", or the umpire gets confused and raises the wrong hand, then everything goes out the window. Using that logic, we could argue that the "flying Safe" that some umpires tend to use looks too much like a Time/Foul mechanic, so we should change the Safe mechanic so that it looks like a self-hug. :p

If the mechanics are done properly, however, I still don't see how they can be confused. One has the entire left arm completely horizontal. The other has the right arm bent at a 90-degree angle. Shame on the players and coaches that can't figure out the difference. Besides, it's not our job to ensure our properly-executed signals don't confuse players and coaches.

And I did that to provide a better example of why someone could argue why FED probably did away with the old DDB mechanic.

My guess, however, as to why FED got rid of it is so that baseball umpires are consistent in all codes.

Want to rethink that one, Mike?

No, I really don't. To what do you refer?

Our duty as umpire is to nullify the act of obstruction. We can't always do that as soon as the OBS occurs.

PLAY: R2 is obstructed by F6 between 2nd and 3rd on a base hit by B2. He is then thrown out at the plate:
(a) by 10 feet
(b) on a close play

We can't know at the moment of obstruction what our award will be -- 3rd or home.

This is incorrect. Baseball does teach that we should use post-obstruction evidence in determining an award. Softball does not.

Sorry -- I didn't realize we had morphed into a softball discussion.

Just out of curiosity, what is the rationale for making an immediate decision in softball as opposed to baseball? Is OBS an immediate dead ball?

No ... but I would actually ask this question the other way around.

Here's why... once a runner has been obstructed, every action taken by every player on the field (runners and fielders) is possibly altered from what it would have been had the obstruction not occurred.

I often hear an umpire (you implied this) say, "he was obstructed by about a step or two, the throw beat him by less than that, so he surely would have scored without the OBS." But this completely ignores the thrower - who threw the ball with a certain amount of speed after seeing where the runner he was throwing out was. Fielders don't throw every ball as hard as they possibly can. If the runner would have been 2 steps further along the path, would they have thrown the ball harder to try to make the play?

The same concept works the other way around as well. The runner is thrown out by 3 steps after an OBS that you think was "worth" about 2. But, if the runner was two steps closer and the fielder had to hurry the throw more, would it have been as accurate?

There's simply no way to calculate every single decision and what would have been different from what actually played out. MUCH more accurate to see the positions of the ball, fielder, and runner and decide right then... "absent that obstruction, the runner would have gotten to third".

Well ... we can't know for sure what would have happened. But, in baseball, we're instructed to use our experience, common sense and judgment to award bases.

Umpires are told exactly the same in softball.

The only difference is in the OBR training to include post-obstruction evidence to make that call.